DISPOSAL OF MADELEINE

The weirded out Priest, Chaplin's Restaurant next to the church, Ocean Club, and how and where did they conceal a body if that is what happened?

Postby bugalugs1970 » Sat Jan 26, 2008 5:43 pm

just found this post on another forum 3A's one

found it very informative and interesting

There are several different types of fluids present in the body at the time a person dies, including blood, synovial fluid in the joints, urine in the bladder, mucus in the lungs or other parts of the body, cerebrospinal fluid, even ocular fluid in the eyes. After death, these fluids begin to break down rapidly as putrefaction and decay occur. Several weeks after death, say three weeks, the length of time that Madeleine McCann had been dead before her parents hired the Renault Scenic, the primary types of "corpse fluids" that would be found in a body would be two: sera, the liquid part of the blood, which would contain white blood cells that could be a source of DNA (somewhat surprisingly, mature red blood cells lack a nucleus and therefore do not contain DNA); and an exudate from the lungs that occurs after a person dies and may be frothy or bloody-looking and would also contain cells that could be a source of nuclear DNA.

Although either of these two "corpse fluids" could be a source of nuclear DNA, the DNA could be degraded due to heat, exposure to sunlight or cleaning fluids, or merely the passage of time.

We have read in press reports both that "corpse fluids" were found on a piece of carpeting in the Renault Scenic, and that a sample of blood determined to be Madeleine's was also found there. At this point we are prisoners of the press, as with so many other things in this case, and do not know which (if either) is correct. SirPrize has written, and I wholeheartedly agree, that any blood found in the boot of the Scenic would have been there as the result of transfer from an item that was bled on whilst Madeleine was alive or very shortly after her death. For example, if Madeleine had died of some injury that caused her to bleed and her body had been wrapped in a towel or sheet, and that item had then been transported in the Scenic, blood could have been transferred to the boot of the car. Her body would not still have been xxxxxxxx 20 days after she died.

The "corpse fluids" mentioned above could also have been transferred to the Scenic in this manner, or directly from Madeleine's body. Any post-mortem fluids, however, would be likely to occur in smaller quantity than blood from a xxxxxxxx wound serious enough to kill a child. Therefore, as SirPrize has pointed out, the presence of either blood or corpse fluids in the Scenic would not require that Madeleine's body itself had been transported in the car; she could have been buried or disposed of someplace and items that had been in contact with her bloody or dead body could have been carried in the car at some point.
Posted by beachey


"Anything i say is said because i care, i want the truth and justice for those that have suffered"
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Postby Chloe Spain » Mon Jan 28, 2008 11:40 pm

So what this comes down to is that the presence of both blood and "corpse fluids" in the Scenic would make it unlikely that the body itself had been transported in the car so long after Madeleine's death. I find this much more reasonable, as I can't imagine that even these people could bear to have their daughter's body stashed away somewhere for so long.
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Postby RENATA » Tue Jan 29, 2008 12:48 am

I agree Chloe and obviously everything hinges on the condition of the samples taken. I think its fair to say from what we do know that the apartment was contaminated. If these samples prove to come from a dead child then (imo) it would be from transference, not actually from the presence of a corpse in the car itself. I cannot give any consideration to the idea that the McCanns hid a corpse for more than 3 weeks and then moved it again -undetected. I find this totally absurd under the circumstances they found themselves in during that time period.
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Postby bugalugs1970 » Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:16 am

I agree Chloe and obviously everything hinges on the condition of the samples taken. I think its fair to say from what we do know that the apartment was contaminated. If these samples prove to come from a dead child then (imo) it would be from transference, not actually from the presence of a corpse in the car itself. I cannot give any consideration to the idea that the McCanns hid a corpse for more than 3 weeks and then moved it again -undetected. I find this totally absurd under the circumstances they found themselves in during that time period.


ditto[:)]

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Postby survivor5 » Thu Apr 10, 2008 8:36 pm

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by RENATA</i>
<br />Crucial to the guilt or innocence of the McCanns is what happened to the physical body of the child. If an abduction is not credible then its fair to assume the child was killed in the vicinity of PDL, on or around 2/3 May. I'd really welcome ideas on how Madeleine's corpse was spirited away.
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I am so grateful to have found a forum at long last that is actually sane and analytical. I have thought that I was the only person to have serious doubts about their innocence and the well-oiled PR slimy Clarence machine. Have people become less intelligent and objective? Someone please tell me what is happening to this country?
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Postby Sad Git » Fri Apr 11, 2008 12:32 am

Welcome survivor5, it's always nice to have a new member who isn't trying to sell us Viagra. [:D]

In this forum you're free to voice your opinions, whether they are on-message or not. We've all gone through that phase of wondering if we're the only one who is still sane...

Happy posting!

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but only three muscles to reach out and smack the offending person in the mouth"
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Postby Tony Bennett » Fri Apr 11, 2008 12:48 am

survivor5 makes a very important point here:

"Have people become less intelligent and objective?"

I would put it slightly differently: less able to distinguish truth from fiction, less interested in the truth about things than they once were, more able to be manipulated by the mass media.

But there is something additionally very creepy about this whole story, namely the extent to which the McCanns have been able to exploit the media and suppress dissent. There is much more I could write about this topic but I suspect there are some powerful behind-the-scenes players in this story about whom we know nothing as yet.

Those of us who are genuine McCann-sceptics have experienced the way others out there view our scepticism as almost heretical. Yet the deception the McCanns and their spokespersons have practised about the 'disappearance' of Madeleine appears obvious to many of us

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Madeleine is probably dead, and probably died in Apartment 5a in the Praia da Luz apartments. If so, let us learn all the lessons we can from this tragic and evil event. May her death not be in vain
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Postby survivor5 » Fri Apr 11, 2008 1:06 pm

I want to know who is more at fault for attempting to pervert the course of justice? Gordon Brown and the Scottish elite or the medical establishment? How typical that the person who has been charged is a poor member of the working class, Karen Matthews,who, although obviously in the wrong is a whole lot less manipulative and cruel than the dreadful doctors. It was, after all, them who presumably gave her the idea for a good scam. What other powerful forces are out there subverting justice? God help the police!!<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Tony Bennett</i>
<br />survivor5 makes a very important point here:

"Have people become less intelligent and objective?"

I would put it slightly differently: less able to distinguish truth from fiction, less interested in the truth about things than they once were, more able to be manipulated by the mass media.

But there is something additionally very creepy about this whole story, namely the extent to which the McCanns have been able to exploit the media and suppress dissent. There is much more I could write about this topic but I suspect there are some powerful behind-the-scenes players in this story about whom we know nothing as yet.

Those of us who are genuine McCann-sceptics have experienced the way others out there view our scepticism as almost heretical. Yet the deception the McCanns and their spokespersons have practised about the 'disappearance' of Madeleine appears obvious to many of us

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Madeleine is probably dead, and probably died in Apartment 5a in the Praia da Luz apartments. If so, let us learn all the lessons we can from this tragic and evil event. May her death not be in vain
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Postby Tony Bennett » Sat Apr 12, 2008 7:14 pm

survivor5, you asked: "I want to know who is more at fault for attempting to pervert the course of justice?..."

REPLY: Well, Gordon Brown and the medical establishment are no doubt guilty of covering up all sorts of things, but we don't yet really know what role either has played in the Madeleine case. Save, of course, that we do know, on the record, that Gerry McCann spoke to Gordon Brown many times and that Gordon Brown personally intervened in a successful ttempt to persuade the Portuguese police in May to allow Gerry McCann to publicise details of an alleged abductor - based on Jane Tanner's claimed recollections.

To come to Karen Matthews and the McCanns.

<b>What should Karen Matthews be charged with</b>?

Well, probably the most serious charge is 'making a fool of us all, especially her neighbours in Dewbury and, of course, the police'.

She is actually being charged with perverting the course of justice and child neglect.

I am not sure she has been charged with the correct offences.

I would have added 'wasting police time'.

I might add 'fraud' or 'obtaining money by deception' if there is any evidence she received payments for sobbing about the 'disappearance' of Shannon.

The charge of perverting the course of justice is valid on the facts as we know them and the maximum penalty is I think 14 years in jail.

Is there evidence of 'child neglect'? We don't know. If she arranged for her daughter to stay with the partner's uncle and the child came to no harm there - no. But perhaps there is other evidence of child neglect.

Should Karen Matthews serve a jail term for all this? Maybe a short one - but she is alreday humiliated of course. She should be made to repay any money she gott from Shannon's 'disappearance' and of course the Income Support she appears to have claimed falsely.

<b>Now the McCanns</b>.

*Potentially*, and going by English/British law, the McCanns could be charged with:

* Interfering with the course of justice
* Perverting the course of justice
* Covering up a death and frustrating an inquest
* Manslaughter
* Murder
* Fraud/obtaining money by deception, especially in relation to the Find Madeleine Trust Fund.

If any of these are proved, bearing in mind they are doctors and the scale of the deception they may have practised, IMO the very longest jail terms possible should be considered.

If Gordon Brown/Clarence Mitchell/anyone else from Team McCann, their acolytes and hangers-on have in any way interfered with or perverted the course of justice, then they too should be charged and brought before a court

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Madeleine is probably dead, and probably died in Apartment 5a in the Praia da Luz apartments. If so, let us learn all the lessons we can from this tragic and evil event. May her death not be in vain
Tony Bennett
 
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