Evidence was manipulated

Source: Correio da Manhã, 04.08.2008, paper edition, translation by Astro

Investigation – PJ believes that the McCann couple altered the crime scene in order to simulate the abduction

Maddie’s parents accused of changing the disposition of the furniture and of washing the sofa

The Polícia Judiciária has no doubts that Maddie’s parents changed the disposition of furniture and objects in the apartment where Maddie disappeared from on the evening of May 3, 2007, in the Algarve, thus manipulating the crime scene in order to better justify the abduction theory that they always defended.

According to the Polícia Judiciária’s investigation, which from today onwards is public, the coincidence between the marking of cadaver odour and blood which was given by the sniffer dogs behind the sofa “indubitably” proves that the sofa was pushed against the wall after the little girl’s death. On the other hand, given the few indicia that was collected from this piece of furniture, which was located on the same spot where the dogs gave a signal, the Judiciária admits the possibility that it was “subject to washing” in order to eliminate eventual traces.

Soft toy placed on the bed

“There are strong indicia that they altered the crime scene, moving some of the furniture. The changes are indicators of simulation”, one of the PJ’s reports reads, also revealing that Maddie’s soft toy, which was found at the top of the bed where Maddie slept, was placed there at a posterior moment, given the fact that contrary to the soft toy, the bed failed to reveal cadaver odour.

“There was an intentional modification, in an attempt to take advantage for the simulation of the picture of abduction”, one can read in the process, where the investigators recall that the procedures from the family were in such manner as to conduct the investigation into the direction of the abduction thesis. The Polícia Judiciária believes that the false abduction was “worked by the group”, which made the investigators “waste time”.

McCanns mentioned death to the PJ

The possibility that Madeleine is dead was raised to the PJ by the McCanns themselves, who suggested contacting a person to indicate the spot where the cadaver could be found. “This fact became unexplainable for the elements of the investigation”, the PJ writes, remembering that in front of the journalists, the parents continued to manifest the hope that they would find their daughter alive.

The dogs never failed in 200 searches

In over two hundred searches, ‘Eddie’ and ‘Keela’, the sniffer dogs of the springel spaniel breed that were used in the investigation into the disappearance of Maddie, did not give a single “false positive result”.

The guarantee is given by English expert Martin Grime, who in the report about the search guarantees that the behaviour of the dog that is trained to detect cadaver odour “changed immediately after opening the front door of the apartment” where Madeleine McCann disappeared from.

“He went into the apartment with above average interest”, the document reads, explaining that the dog signaled inside the couple’s bedroom, in the living room, behind the sofa and next to the side window. The same signs were given by the dog that is trained to detect blood residues. The dogs signaled the same spots and objects that are related to the McCanns – house, car and clothes – which was decisive for being made arguidos.

Notes

No credibility

The deposition by Jane Tanner, who said she saw someone crossing the street carrying a child, was not considered credible by the PJ, which does not understand how the McCanns’ friend, upon seeing someone walking away from Madeleine’s apartment “did not act or speak out immediately”.

Everyone lies

The PJ says that the information that was collected from the McCanns and their friends was “worked upon” in order to strengthen the abduction theory. But it rapidly perceived that “everyone lies” in the issue of checking the children, further explaining that the family information, which in these cases is “fundamental”, was always “distorted”.

Files Process is public – From today onwards, the files of the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine can be consulted at the Court of Portimão by lawyers, witnesses and journalists.

Brown Political pressures – Kate’s notebooks reveal that Maddie’s parents called the English prime minister, Gordon Brown, requesting for political pressure to be placed on Portugal.

Book Amaral recounts death – The former coordinator of the Maddie case recounts in his book ‘Truth of the Lie’, his thesis about the case and defends that the little girl was killed in the apartment and her body frozen.

150 Responses to “Evidence was manipulated”

  1. 1
    Lyndsey Says:

    Another thing I wonder about is that Kate McCann, in her profession as a GP, would highly likely have been involved either directly or indirectly with Social Services and I think there is a strong probability that she might have been responsible for other people’s children being placed on Child Protection Registers or placed into care. There is every chance that other people for whom she acted as their GP have neglected left their children and this may have included leaving them unattended and, of course, GP’s are asked for patient’s medical notes whenever Social Services have concerns about a child or family as they want to look into the background of the child/family. Therefore, for this reason she knew the risk she was taking herself of leaving her children unattended and this would be damaging and she would be anxious to limit the appearance of this damage (and her husband’s) by way of covering up. Her credibility as a GP would be blown apart and she may even have been struck off. Therefore suitable damage limitation is making us believe there was an abductor and it was someone else’s fault notwithstanding she and her husband left their children unattended, as we now know, for very long periods and crying for 75 minutes. As far as her advice to Social Services goes, the saying, ‘Do as I say, not as I do’ comes to mind.

  2. 2
    Jane Prosser Says:

    Leaving their children alone was a ruse to ‘enable’ the abduction scenario. As cadaverine is only released 2 hours after death, Madeleine must have died early on that day; therefore, why would she have been drugged?

    Gerry needed to give himself an alibi and therefore ‘engaged’ Jeremy Wilkins in conversation. Jane Tanner had to say she saw an abductor while Gerry was talking to Wilkins; this was to dismiss any other sightings that fitted the description of Gerry McCann. This group of people seriously underestimated the tenaciousness of the Portuguese police and didn’t think it through properly. What a shock it must have been for them all (and continues to be)! Gerry and Gordon Brown’s insistence that Tanner’s ‘description’ of an abductor be released was purely to keep the abduction myth going and also to deflect attention away from anyone who may have spotted Gerry carrying Madeleine’s body (as Martin Smith probably did). Jane Tanner is the only one of the group who has spoken about the ‘abduction’. She has to – to keep the abduction scenario going. She must have volunteered to be the one to ‘spot’ the abductor. As the volunteer, she can’t be a part of the ‘pact of silence’. It all becomes quite transparent.

    When people refer to the McCanns being neglectful, the fact that they had to be to cover up their daughter’s death seems to be forgotten. Look at it from a different angle. When we write about them going out and leaving their children, we are falling into their trap of making us believe this is the reason why Madeleine ‘went missing’. She didn’t go missing. She died.

  3. 3
    AMANDA SOUTH AFRICAservice Says:

    SOME WHERE I READ THAT ON THE DAY MADDIE WAS “SNATCHED “, KATE SPOKE TO SOME OF THE TAPAZ GROUP ABOUT THE FEAR OF ABDUCTION IN THAT AREA. ISN`T IT STRANGE THAT SHE SPOKE OF IT THE 3rd OF MAY AND THAT ON THAT DAY AT NIGHT MADDIE WAS GONE. THIS IS NOT JUST COINCEDENCE FOR ME.

  4. 4
    liz perth Says:

    I am certain that Madeline is dead and agree thatthe McCanns covered up her death or murder. I am quite intutive and I see Maddie in my minds eye pointing to a pile of stones, like a cairn of some sort where her body lies.

    Site admin: One would think that a big pile of stones would be the first to be unturned by the McCanns. The big shame is that they have never been seen looking for Madeleine.

  5. 5
    chris longden Says:

    im sure some sort of prosecution is in order for the neglect shown towards their kids.
    if you or i went out for the evening leaving the children in alone and returned to find one of the children had a broked leg or somthing the trip to the hospital would result in me been charged with neglect.
    so why not these two ????

  6. 6
    Lyndsey Says:

    Does anyone know what the McCann’s and Tapas’s timeline was for 2nd May? We know that on the night of 1st May Madeleine was overheard crying for 75 mins. After that the McCann’s spoke of ‘upping their checks’. Did that therefore mean they checked every 30 mins on the 2nd May? I have only read that they checked every 30 mins on the 3rd. I wonder if there are any witness statements from staff at the complex who know what their movements were on the 2nd May?

    Site Admin: Interesting question. The police interviews typically asked about all days at the resort although without exception the interviews mainly concentrated on the activities of May 3 right across the board with all witnesses. It’s as though the interview technique was flawed from the outset because the police didn’t consider that Madeleine was maybe gone before May 3. There are forensic clues about the 2nd though. Creche records, tennis booking sheets, etc.

  7. 7
    Tony Says:

    I have tried to search for Madeleine in May 2007 and also visited the Portugal I contacted the police on airport and gave them my information about missing Madeleine. I have asked police in airport to inform special crime investigation regarding Madeleine disappearance but there was not any willingness to receive attention. I have evidence of abduction by two men and one women. I know there was non investigation regarding abduction, why the police with Goncalo Amaral didn’t investigate possible abduction theory? Was he unable to do it?

  8. 8
    Liz Y Says:

    Tony, Don’t really know what you’re on about, I’m sure if you’re information was crucial (like all the sightings – Yeah right, the McCanns would have been all over you like a rash. The fact is that Goncalo Amaral was blocked at every turn, and the McCanns weren’t in the least bit interested in the sighting by the Smith family, which I find strange (‘leaving no stone unturned’). They under-estimated the tenacity of the Portuguese police generally, and Goncalo Amaral in particular. They thought they were superior both intellectually and (by way of being British) self-importantly, they were wrong on both counts, and I hope he continues to haunt them forever.
    I am absolutely certain that he will win the day and all power to him, the sooner the better. By whichever means or date or whatever, they did it, THEY REALLY DID IT!!!
    Can anyone tell me, a technophobe, how to download his book.
    Respect to you Goncalo and former .colleagues

  9. 9
    Curious Says:

    I heard, and this is really just rumour, one of those friend of a friend things, but;

    A friend of mine has a friend who was in Praiza de Luz when Maddie vanished. She dmay or may not have loosely known the McCann’s or the Tapas 9 but was there, as can happen(popular holiday destination etc plus we’re from Liverpool where Kate is from so there may have been a connection)
    ANY WAY;

    The friend in Portugal told an interesting story which was ignored by the press and I’ve never heard a word on since; There was a 4th child in the room.
    Since Maddie and the twins where not the only kids, and to save having to travel too far to check on the kids, a 4th child, another little girl, was sharing the room with the McCann children.
    She might be the only person who knows or saw what happened but the Luz police didn’t want to talk to her or where not informed of her presence in the room.
    The friend knows through her loose, passing connection to the group and her vague knowledge of their habits with regards to the kids.
    Obviously, now, any information the kid had is long lost to the dusts of a toddler’s memory, or has been distorted, or she may even have been coached into silence.

    Either way, I’d be interested to hear more on that, if there is any information on it.

    Now, as we know, if this was the case it changes the game significantly; if another kid was in the room it means the Tapas 9 either knew Maddie was already dead, or she died earlier in the dinner and was moved some time before Kate raised the alarm, or she really was abducted and this kid saw it happen. Or slept through it happening…. either way, did anyone else ever hear anything like this?

  10. 10
    Tony Says:

    Very interesting questions about
    1)Crying for 70 minutes by Madeleine was not correct. There is no evidence.
    2)Four children in apartment 5A on 3rd May was also not correct. No evidence
    3)Smith family and also Jane Tanner saw men carrying little girl after 9pm on 3rd May.
    4)There are no real evidence only some indication about Mc Cann’s guilty of dead or disappearance of Madeleine.
    My question for you, will you be happy if most of readers of that article accused you of this crime without evidence if this concern you?
    Remember, All evil are created by ignorance, book of Bagavad-Gita about 3 thousand years ago.

  11. 11
    eddie Says:

    Tony, I think you’re a dis-info agent.
    Your diction is written as though the English language is not your first language, yet your spelling is close to perfect.

  12. 12
    Bill Says:

    Jane Prosser – I would like to thank you for a well written and concise summation of “The McCanns and their theories on abduction.” Your words should be written on the copy book of every journalist in the UK to remind them before they put pen to paper to look at this case from all sides and report responsibly.

  13. 13
    Liz Y Says:

    Bill, I think you can bet your sweet life, most serious journalists would love nothing more than to report the facts and truth, sadly, once again, powerful people are involved. What I really want to know is Why?? Even in their somewhat elevated positions of Consultant and GP, Why?? Who the hell are these people??

  14. 14
    gj Says:

    Having only recently taken up an interest in this case, I am amazed to read these posts. They are interesting but i would like to know where your evidence for accusing the McCanns of a cover up actually come from? I see the dogs scented death in the room but that is certainly not conclusive. Can someone else please give me any hard evidence of a cover up? Specifics please.
    Thanks

  15. 15
    sophie Says:

    If your child disappears into the darkness of the night and in a foreign country, you would naturally assume the worst. Yet Kate has always been adamant that Maddie is being cared for by a family. She still maintains that position until today. As Liz Y indicated, powerful people are involved and why would they be afterall K and G Mccann are merely Consultants/GP.
    I don’t believe that Maddie was abducted or killed in the apartment. I believe that the Mccanns are involved in something much more sinister and sordid. They gave their daughter away and not to a family which explains kate’s outburst on the night that Maddie went missing.
    Kate : “They have taken her” “We’ve let her down”
    Maddie was drugged and the apartment door was left unlocked thus making it an extremely simple process to move her. Additionally, there was mention of a private plane leaving Paria LaLuz that night and as it happens the owner of that plane is an acquaintance of Gerry.
    Now if the incident is true in which David Payne allegedly made remarks of a sexual nature concerning Maddie in the presence of Gerry and another of the Tapas member, then this whole affair becomes something far more sinister.

  16. 16
    Martin - South Africa Says:

    Hi guys& gals, this is Martin { another south african “madeleine finder” arrives in portugal. This is my first post to this site, my last was to “stevo” to his email, that was published on the web.

    I am not one to get involved in gosip or run people down. Not even those who are “faceless”. over the past year and some months, a couple of people on this site had a lot to say about me, my visits to Luz, my motives, and even questioned why I was not speaking for myself. Simply this, No time to listen to most of the nonsense comming up on the site. I have from time to time followed a couple of the comments and discussions, with opinion reserved.

    As most of you are aware, I have been working on a theory of what happend to Madelein, and where she might be. The results of my findings have been forwarded to Rebelo, the Mc Canns, and most of the papers in the UK.

  17. 17
    Martin - South Africa Says:

    I am very interested to hear the comments on my last post, and want to leave you with the following:

    Madeleine Mc Cann will be found, in Praia Da Luz, she is not more than a mile away from apartment A5.
    I am inviting anyone who wants to contact me, to do so on facebook. bye of now…

  18. 18
    Liz Y Says:

    gj, I don’t think you’re going to get a potted version of this. Most of us started by believing that the poor child had been abducted, then things didn’t add up, too many lies, discrepancies and really odd behaviour and body language made some people (better than myself), dig further and the more they dug the more discrepancies and lies and the more odd the set up was. These brave people instigated these sites, so that others could read te info and make an informed decision. I think you’re going to have to start reading and questioning. If you do you’ll never see the McCanns and their cronies in the same light ever. Let me ask you this, had it ben your child who had been kidnapped?? would you be out at church smiling and laughing, or having a gentle jog on the beach a few days later, no, I didn’t think so. If you think all this is crazy, tell your friends, all of them. Someone, somewhere has to be bothered, about this little person, as, sadly her parents and their sponsors, sit in comfort, all the while dreaming up more scams to get the dosh rolling in. Not so easy now though is it Gerry – you can fool some of the people……etc, etc.

  19. 19
    Liz Y Says:

    Martin from South Africa, I hate to burst your bubble mate, but, you’re not another South African Madeleine finder, you’re actually another Failed South African Madeleine finder. it’s quite telling that apart from a few throwaway words at the end of your first post, you didn’t mention Madeleine at all, when you did you spelt her name wrong. It’s all about you! I come to this site to read comments, some I agree with and some not. However, all of those posts are written by people who care (whether their mindset is similar to mine or not) I know they care. I take exception to someone suggesting that their views and mine are rubbish. I think Madeleine will be found in the Library by Miss Mustard. All hot air. You should take a few industrial strength Humility Capsules, and then seek urgent medical help, to remove your head from your arse. Have a nice day!

  20. 20
    Tweets that mention Evidence was manipulated | Truth For Madeleine -- Topsy.com Says:

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  21. 21
    Helen Says:

    2 right you are Liz. And that “Tony” guy seems like an Italian dude i knew once upon a time with his Mickey Mouse English, verbal diarreah and endlessly making ref to Bagvad-Gita.
    Anyway, i really go along with what Sophie says in general though, there is just an AIR around this whole thing, and it’s something that seemingly none of us are able to put our finger upon entirely, and we all keep on trying. One thing remains clear to myself however, lies, distortions and disinformation in an endless array of layers upon layers surrounds Madeleines disappearence, and just that fact alone speaks volumes. Most of us are just simply too nice people to really courageously voice out what i think most of us are actually thinking and i think what we are thinking is what Sophie indicates. and that then indicates there is a really “grand design” it all, that is the most sinister one of them all. I mean, it is easy enough to find piles of stories from the past 10-30 yrs of high level politicians and upper class, socialite snobs being involved in the most organised form of the -p-word. Admittedly, most stories have no conclusion, no s.t.s substantial proof, and are mind boggling stories of the worst sort. We should therefore remind ourselves that -truth is stranger then fiction- and that is a fact we all know to be true whatever we observe in history. Just the fact that so far Madeleines disappearence seems to sink more into the quicksand the more we all ask ourselves what happened to her and speculate over her fate, and then compare that fact with all the other mind boggling stories, it most certainly seems that they are created by the same sinister web of people in -high places-. And yes, the question remains, -WHO are the McCanns in relation to those people?

  22. 22
    Aquarius Says:

    What’s with Liz’s attitude? My goodness, aren’t we just a ray of blooming sunshine? Perhaps you should get your head out of the sand and start living girl! You’re a bitter sounding individual who ten to one hasn’t accomplished much in life and sits back criticising others who are trying to make a difference. Buy yourself a dog, take a nice long walk on the beach then go home and pour yourself a nice tall glass of shut the hell up … seeing as you have nothing ‘nice’ or ‘sensible’ to bitch about.

  23. 23
    Aquarius Says:

    Helen, I left a note on the other site in case you haven’t viewed it. This case is like something out of an Agatha Christie novel. Seriously. Having been involved from day one, I have seen the attitudes of (not wanting to mention names) ‘people who know what happened’ change from one extreme to the next. The vindictiveness and blatant cheek of the authorities, the press who twist words. When you one day get to sit and read through all the documentation from this side you’ll wonder to yourself just who actually has Maddie’s best interests at heart and who was ever there at the end of the day to protect her. It’s too sad for words and something that I’m looking VERY forward to putting behind me. Just to go over some of the recent events (over the last 6 months or so) make me cry and angry at the same time. No child should ever be remembered in this way …

  24. 24
    Liz Yallop Says:

    Aquarius. My my, whose feathers are ruffled, I made a mistake, I thought we believed in freedom of speech, the very thing that Goncalo Amaral is campaigning for. People will change their opinions, as new information comes out, there are people who have only reached this site today, and their take on this will change with additional info. Let’s be honest, as someone who was at the beginning, didn’t your views change as time went on? Of course they did, we all thought it was a genuine case of abduction, YOUR views changed I’ll bet, mine too. If someone comes on here and criticises the people who care enough to write their views, it’s bad manners and vindictive to label them and their views as nonsense, there was no need to say that. Anyway, who made you judge and jury?
    By the way, I have 2 beautiful grandaughters, I have 3 dogs, am a staff nurse in children’s cancer ward and the beach is miles away, I lead a fulfilling, active life and I hope against hope that Madeleine will be found safe and well, but, at the same time, I know she won’t. Just remember that everyone who comes here, doesn’t need criticism of their views, length of service doesn’t entitle anyone to be rude, everyone wants Madeleine back.

  25. 25
    Liz Y Says:

    Aquarius, Have been looking at other forums, you certainly don’t mince your words to others. I didn’t realise you were Martin’s sister,that explains a lot. Freedom of speech, hmmm… isn’t that what Goncalo has been campaining for? What makes you the judge and juror? Had your brother not been critical of other people on here, I wouldn’t have replied. I find it strange that you criticise me for what you yourself have done in your reply to me. My reply wasn’t anywhere near as vitriolic as your little outburst. It’s a great shame you seemingly can’t allow your brother to speak for himself.
    I am neither bitter nor unfulfilled, I have 3 dogs, I have a tall glass but prefer to fill it with vodka & tonic, and having one’s head in sand is much better than the alternative. If you want to find sad and bitter, re-read you reply. Now, I would like go back to discussing Madeleine, if your brother knows so much, he’s certainly keeping it to himself all this time.

  26. 26
    Helen Says:

    Aquarius.. Hi , thank you for the reply..sorry i’ve been away for a while. I’m sorry i don’t know which site you indicate, i am following most of them.

  27. 27
    Helen Says:

    I realize everyone have their opinions and feelings in this matter, i am however not getting in to non-constructive arguments with other people about anything related to this matter. I find it extremely sad that people argue, as it will not help in finding out what happened to Madeleine. I understand and respect that feelings might heat up, as it is totally human that that happens, when that happens to myself i just stay out of the discussion for a while in order to calm down.
    I know at the end of the day that most of us here are good people with a genuine concern for finding out Madeleines fate, whatever angle or country we come from. Wishing you all all the best.

  28. 28
    Helen Says:

    Looks like there are 2 Helen’s posting on here, for future i will post as Helen1 to avoid confusion, as i didnt write the above! But have posted as Helen on other threads.

  29. 29
    Taurus Says:

    It is all in a name. What name is on my mind is the Bull and so I am adding me as I went to dine at the Bull Inn.

    Point 1. Martin has emailed all those on this who can inspect what he says.
    Point 2. Martin can be challenged. Leicester Police have his emails as he knows. They have had them for one year now as I sent them. Team McCann have them. Martin Grime has them.

    Martin insists she is where he says and the problem is he is not saying that she is alive.
    If he were he would be on the front page of every newspaper and get funds from old age pensioners who donate to the PR campaign of where not to find Madeleine.

    He instead says of a place and Portimao Police and Amaral are aware of what he says, and yes his emails and FB have been hacked. All this is true if Admin published it he will reply to affirm this. I have seen the emails from Amaral. But like all emails I do not send them to those with a coflict of interest. It is unethical to give information that could be used subversively to gain from and not act on. You have not heard the last of Martin by a long chalk.

  30. 30
    Beverly Says:

    It seems the right day to post something here – 3 May 2011. I too thought this was an abduction, but then I started reading, including Amaral’s book. This week the Daily Express, UK, wrote a heart-rending article thoroughly endorsing the abduction theory; the Daily Mail this week featured KM’s new book, which is expected ‘to sell millions of copies worldwide’. The media seem to have curled up with their collective legs in the air – and of course, they can’t afford to lose money these days; there does not seem to be ONE single journalist or broadcaster willing to look at the facts – one or two have even made it plain that any view other than abduction is “sick”. Patently, they have not read the material that we have read on this site. Why not? So – all of that is a preamble, four years on, to ask if anyone knows what is happening? Why are these people being so protected? Why has the evidence not been reviewed? What is the role of the UK police? When are we going to see some true justice for this child?

  31. 31
    Liz Y Says:

    Beverly, It seems perfectly obvious that the press have been silenced, (more people in high places), websites have already disappeared. This whole thing isn’t the result of hysterical outporings of grieving parents, trying anything, to find Madeleine and get her home. I think there is something really insidious and highly illicit happening here. Two men who are overheard making offensive, disgusting comments about their own children, and, neither man has bothered to refute these allegations, whilst being compo-happy about anything and everything else, pertaining to this case.
    The FBI recently (within 6-12 months ago) sent correspondence containing the names of paedophiles loose in this Country, there are thousands more off the radar, (that the FBI can do this and not our own police and security services is disturbing). The said lists carried the names of many, many Doctors, Lawyers, Priests, Judges, Teachers, Clerical workers, Manual workers, Bus drivers, Politicians (not that politicians are normal), and any amount of other normal people going about their daily lives, usually near a school or some such place where children are in large numbers.
    I have sometimes been aghast at the soft sentence being given to child molesters, predators and their kind. Maybe, MAYBE, the Judge empathises with this scum, because he’s doing it himself, the teacher maybe ogling in the kids changing rooms, priests (well, it’s part of the job in some parishes). Doctors (maybe paediatricians), in contact with sick kids. For the most part, there’s a majority of wonderful caring professionals and, I take my hat off to them. But the others are as plausible as the best of them. Maybe paedophile politicians, and other high-ranking people are calling in favours, leaning on others, bribery and corruption which are just part of a normal day.

  32. 32
    Beverly Says:

    Liz, well said and for including mention of the two men in the overheard conversation(s). I have to wonder how the case would have proceeded – and its treatment in the press – if an unmarried couple on benefits, say, had told the same story.

  33. 33
    Liz Y Says:

    I been thinking, the whole charade about Karen Matthews and daughter Shannon was caused by the treatment the McCanns had, and continue to have. Can you really blame them? They saw what happened and thought they could have a piece of the action. Imagine, you’re not overly bright, lots of kids, not much money, not much of a life really (Not that I’m trying to excuse them), switch on the TV or open The Sun. What they see is a couple whose daughter is ‘abducted’ being feted as celebrities, rubbing shoulders with the rich and famous, people throwing money at them, not any word of parental responsibility whatsoever and no legal repercussions. They see a light at the end of their tunnel, a £50 grand reward, WOW!! A way out!! Not for Karen Matthews who got 7 or 8 years (Shannon is still alive and thriving in a new home which is good news). Beverly and a lot of other people here say ‘I wonder what would happen if it were someone on benefits on a council estate or such like?’ WELL NOW YOU KNOW!!

  34. 34
    Laura Says:

    If I were the McCanns I would have insisted on the one option that would go a long way to proving themselves innocent – lie detector tests. I would also administer the tests to the Tapas 7.

    If they pass, the world can focus on Madeleine an an abductee. If they fail……

    Either way, if I KNEW my daughter had been abducted, I would have demanded a lie detector test once it became clear that I were under suspicion.

    There is only 1 truth and therefore no need for stories to change or become more embellished as time goes on.

    The testimony of Jane Tanner has changed so many times it no longer holds any value or crdibility. The lack of emotion and the conflicting statements given by the McCanns themselves enabled the suspicions to grow.

    Their lack of desire or will to take lie detector tests tells me everything I need to know about them. Innocent people do not fear the truth.

  35. 35
    Laura Says:

    One further point people. The dogs in question have never been wrong therefore the probability that they are wrong in this case is negligible.

    Unlike people, the McCanns cannot take the dogs to court to silence them.

    If I had to choose between believing the dogs or believing the McCanns and the Tapas 7, it would be the dogs every time.

  36. 36
    Kate McCann releasing a book - General Chatter Forum (Page 112) Says:

    […] http://truthformadeleine.com/2008/08…#comment-20358 […]

  37. 37
    Beverly Says:

    Well said again Liz. Yes! Interesting too that those with enquiring minds have been hammered in the press this week as ‘internet ghouls’. Analysis is not a poison; it is a quality to respect and cherish when it is rightly used, surely. Doesn’t a child’s disappearance merit every kind of decent analysis? When was that poison!! I wrote to the S. Express following their articles this week, where they omitted vast swathes of research material which has been debated long and hard on the net (by ‘the ghouls’, no doubt ..). I listed twenty questions and asked if they had researched each of these elements when preparing the articles. I copied Nick Ferrari, a journalist with the S. Express and key presenter on LBC Radio (London). Needless to say, I received no acknowledgement from either. What was interesting tho was that, on Nick Ferrari’s early-morning programme on Monday, the following day, he featured the Madeleine case, and chose – from any element he might have presented – to follow up on the recent suspect and to interview someone I think in the police who knew vaguely something about it. Or not much. This ‘suspect’ has not even been interviewed, as I understand it, for this case, and it was/is not proven whether he was even in the resort at the time. So much for analysis!

  38. 38
    Liz Y Says:

    Yes Bev, and so much for truth and justice. Having admitted that their form of ‘investigating’ is not working, and joe public will be footing the bill for Scotland Yard, will they now give up their ‘search’, close the fund, and donate any remaining monies to help search for real missing children? ….WHAT, hand over OUR money to someone else? NEVER!!
    Search for Pat Brown a criminal profiler, then onto the Madeleine Case, it isn’t beyond the realms of possibility that Madeleine’s remains are in this Country. One thing is certain, they’ve hidden her well to have this confidence and audacity. It’s certainly worth looking at.

  39. 39
    Beverly Says:

    Thankyou Liz, I will do that. My hope is that the Yard will do an honest review, starting with a reconstruction. I found Goncalo Amaral’s comments most interesting on the Joana Morais blog yesterday. All best wishes.

  40. 40
    Dawn Erison Says:

    Hi, I have just been reading about peoples views of what happened to Madeleine. I have huge concerns myself…it just does not add up. One of the puzzling things (to me) is, if she died that night (or earlier in the evening) how could they have kept her body to then (someone) move it in the hire car some weeks later on? Where could she have been kept? Someone must know something? It would have decomposed to some degree somewhere! What would the climate have been there then? Probably warm as they had gone for a holiday to a beach and seaside. Sorry if I seem quite naive on this stuff…but this puzzles me most….as there is NO DOUBT in my mind that there are some SECRETS here. Something is just not right with this group, ALL OF THIS GROUP….and they are all guilty of keeping secrets to some degree.

    Site Admin: Our opinion is that Madeleine’s body was stored in a freezer. This part of the suspected hoax was probably the easiest part of all. In this scenario there is little doubt that the body was frozen prior to being moved to another place in the hire car. Decomposition would not be very rapid as bodies are stored in morgues like this all the time and the climate in May 2007 was not as warm as people think. Check the historic weather data or even read Kate’s own description of the cold weather in her latest work of “fiction” “madeleine“.

  41. 41
    Dawn Says:

    Hi Site Admin, I do get that she could have been stored in something like a freezer but I can’t get how ‘someone’ could have stored her in a freezer….with all the interest in her….surely someone would have twigged that she could be there…wherever ‘there’ was. (Like if someone wanted to use my freezer whilst they were on holiday and a child went missing I would want the police to check my freezer out for peace of mind – and kids get into fridges and freezers all the time which is why parents have to be so vigilant.)

    It is all too odd…unless it was almost preplanned by ‘one of the Tapas 9’ during their holiday…but with no-one outside their group putting two and two together is the strangest of all…. It does seem logical what you said though.

    Also how could ‘whomever’ be sure of getting the same hire car…or was that their bit of bad luck? Because once she was scented in the hire car by dogs weeks after her disappearance there would be a connection. If the body-mover had had ‘another’ car it may not have come up. And no-one recognised them when they hired a car to move her. All the Tapas 9 photos were published were they not? Sorry….so many unanswered questions and Madeleine deserves the perpertrators to be brought to justice. And her little twin brother and sister protected. That is the least we (all of us enraged public) can do for her.

    Thanks

    I really hope they get to the bottom of this…the whole group of 9 seem pretty odd….cold and uncaring…like they are ALL concealing too much

    Site Admin:You make some good points but remember that there were many diversions and smoke and mirrors. Read Faked Abduction and in particular the chapter dealing with the weekend of June 9-10, 2007. Like a magician, the audience is looking one way while the “trick” is being played out somewhere else. The McCanns had at least one friend in Praia da Luz and there is nothing to say they didn’t rent another apartment through a proxy – an apartment with a freezer. And don’t forget that the McCanns had the weight of the British government behind them.

  42. 42
    sophie Says:

    From the very beginning of Maddie’s disappearance, Kate McCann has always insisted that she believed Maddie is being looked after by a family and she never thought that Maddie was in any danger. However she has since changed her tune with the publishing of her book. In it she claims that she is haunted by the thought that maddie’s abductor/s could be a paedophile. Yet none of her earlier statements and interviews suggests she ever entertained those thoughts.
    Like many you, i am leaning towards the possibility that she did indeed died in that apartment and the outburst by kate “they’ve taken her” suggest the movement of the body to another location.
    If it was an abduction, then would it not have been easier to take the younger kids as it would have been easier to move them out of the apartment especially if they were sedated?
    The body language of the McCanns seems to indicate that they know a lot lot more than they are letting on and their version of events as told in their book will work against them.Justice for Madeleine.

  43. 43
    I Don't Believe It Says:

    Sophie,

    I am no more convinced by the McCann narrative than you. However, we do have to be a bit careful with the facts. The McCann machine is adept at throwing out all sorts of confusing suggestions and some things have become legend in the anti-McCann camp.

    I would query where you get the idea that KMC claimed Maddie is definitely being looked after by a family. Do you have a source for that? I think they have encouraged that idea at times, and have often said there is no evidence that she came to any harm, itself an odd way of talking about your infatn daughter have been abducted from her family. But if you challenged KMC on this, she would probably be able to point to previous statements that contradict what you say.

    I would also like to know the source for “they’ve taken her”. I am not sure I have ever seen a credible source for that and even if she did say it, it doesn’t mean the phrase is indicative of a conspiracy. People in the UK might well say “they’ve taken the TV” if they were robbed of their TV by burglars. Abduction is an unusual situation to say the least and “they’ve taken her” is not necessarily so unusual a phrase as to suggest anything other than abduction.

    I couldn’t agree more about the body language. They’ve become more adept at controlling the tell tale signs, but even now the body language is instructive.

  44. 44
    sophie Says:

    May 14th : “”until there is concrete evidence to the contrary, we believe Madeleine is safe and is being looked after ”

    Thursday, October 25, 2007
    In the recent interview with the parents of Madeleine McCann, Kate McCann states she believes Madeleine is alive, essentially unharmed, and being cared for in someone’s home.”
    There were at least two more interviews with kate where she mentions that she believed that maddie is alive and is being looked after by a family.

    “They’ve taken her, they’ve taken her, Maddie is gone maddie is gone, they’ve taken our little girl.””,: According to the staff ( 2 nannnies, a waiter and a receptionist) at the resort, kate mccann shouted these words from the balcony and as she ran back to the restaurant. These staff members when interviewed separately all claimed that these were the words uttered by kate. Days later, the Mccanns issued a statement claiming that the words uttered by kate was : Maddie’s gone maddies’ gone.

    In a burglary it is normal to say “they’ve taken the tv or in my case they’ve taken the car” because someone would have had to enter the premises to remove the particular item. The phrase “they’ve taken…” is applicable. It is NOT applicable in the case of a missing person be it a child or adult, unless you know for sure that there are others involved. A normal reaction would be to say Maddie is missing or I cannot find maddie she is not in her bed or the apartment”. I have always found Kate’s choice of words be it “they’ve taken her or Maddie is gone” to be strange.

    Additionally, kate has always refused to have the kids tested to know if they were drugged. In her book, she now claims that the kids were sound asleep despite the commotion in the room that night and she suspected that drugs may have been administered to the kids. Yet she refused to have the tests carried out. Don’t you find all this extremely worrying and strange that these two are not being charged with neglect?

    (Please forgive my english as it is not my first language…it’s getting better i hope)

    Kate enters the apartment to check on the kids. Maddie is not in her bed. She looks around the apartment and maddie is not there,. She then frantically begins to scream Maddie is gone maddie is gone they’ve taken out little girl”.

  45. 45
    sophie Says:

    The choice of words Kate used on the night ” Maddie’s gone” from my point of view seems final somehow. She’s gone, she’s no longer with us are phrases used to indicate the death of someone.

  46. 46
    I Don't Believe It Says:

    Hi Sophie,

    Well thanks for the reminder of the quote. It sounds familiar, but you haven’t given a citation for it. Are you sure it wasn’t something Clarence said about what she was thinking?

    In fairness I had forgotten that. But of course it does not say she thinks she is being cared for by a family which is what you say she said. Clarence would easily spin that statement as the forlorn hope of a couple yet to come fully to terms with the tragic events.

    They equally (in the Panorama programme – around the same time I think) promoted the idea of a sinister man – a “predator” was the word they used – watching the apartment from across the way. I think they have been sending out a variety of messages at different times. They are v. clever at doing that and the strategy works very well. In the same way the “abductor” has had long hair and short hair, been swarthy and blonde, been alone and had an accomplice…

    I don’t really understand why people place so much evidence on “they’ve taken her”. You admit English is not your first language and in idiomatic English “they” does NOT signal a specific plural number of people. People in the UK use the word in a much more abstract sense. “They ought to do something about that”. “If they can put a man on the moon…”

    There are only four possibilities.

    – KMC has no knowledge of how her daughter disappeared from the apartment and neither do any of the Tapas 7.

    – KMC has no knowledge of how her daughter disappeared from the apartment but one or more of the Tapas 7 do.

    – KMC had no exact knowledge of how her daughter disappeared from the apartment but had a strong suspicion about what had happened.

    – KMC does have knowledge of how her daughter disappeared from the apartment.

    To my mind, as an English speaker and one who works very closely with English sentence construction every day, I am confident in saying “they’ve taken her”/”Maddie’s gone” are compatible with all four.

  47. 47
    sophie Says:

    I’ve got to leave for work in a few minutes but i promise you i will find the clippings of kate’s interview with a british journalist in which she repeatedly said that Madeleine is being looked after by a family. At the time i thought this was quite strange.

    As a parent, if i came home and found one of my kids missing my first reaction would be to say “… is missing or … is not here” to say “they’ve taken her” does not sound right to me. But that’s just my opinion

    “There’s absolutely no suggestion that Madeleine or the (twins) were drugged and it’s outrageous,” Mr McCann said “These questions the public knows are nonsense and we shouldn’t be giving them the time of day,” he added. ( interview in 2007 with kate and gerry) Today Mrs Mccann is now singing a different tune.

    Have a pleasant day everyone.

  48. 48
    Taurus Says:

    Many people change their stories every time it does not fit to suit an issue, or agenda.
    The issue is why shout ‘they have taken her’ when Jane has seen only one person with a child and not two? But of course she did know a fellow guest taking coffee had left with his daughter at that time. She had to, she was there.

    Kate says of the night before of an ‘abductor’. One who now is said to have ‘drugged’ the twins and Madeleine.

    One who caused the ‘stain’ as pale brown on the Marks and Spencer top of a pyjama.The illustration of this is that the man got in and alarmed Madeleine and Sean, but not Amelie?

    That the act of this sinister man was why they were afraid before, and she had not questioned it further. Except this.

    The tea stain is a pale colour, so what happened then to make that colour stain?
    To me it is saying an act of a sexual nature or why put it into that context?

    Paedophile and not thief is suggested?

    It is saying tea was given by someone when they were out as a possible that the man brewed up and gave them sweet, or not sweet tea when in bed to sedate them, yes? This to waken them to drink it or whilst they were awake?

    Or is it an suspicion that they were not awake and some action took place that made the stain on an unworn top on a bed nearby ready to be worn. Was she wearing the same top twice after it was washed, or was it ready to be worn the next day? I am confused at the reference to this stain and to what is implied by it?

  49. 49
    I Don't Believe It Says:

    Sophie –

    I am just trying to look at this in the way that a defence barrister or a PR spinner would…playing “devil’s advocate” if you like.

    I guess I would say that “they’ve taken her” is not the most natural thing to say…but on the other hand it’s not outside the range of possibilities. Of course it is something someone might say if they were deliberately planting the idea of abduction.

    I think the “drugged” denial relates to the suggestion that they were sedating the children (which would of course explain why they were so confident the children would not wake up, had that been the case). It is compatible with the abductor drugging the children. But what is not compatible, is the McCanns’ reluctance to have MMc’s siblings tested in hospital.

    Taurus –

    The “stain” story is one of those strange McCann stories that seem to be invested with great significance by them, but we cannot quite fathom why. It’s similar to that story about her “carefully” removing the braid tie (?I think it was a braid thing). Of course that may relate to the status of the “last photo”.

  50. 50
    Taurus Says:

    As you learn new terms you use them and forget the slang or terms prior.
    To me reading the book I got a third through and could not go on.
    Her mind has not only thought, or delivered images, they are still there all these years later.

    I could not in my nightmares think of the terms she uses or the experiences she puts in words that Madeleine a days from four year old had perhaps suffered as a visual to the world in a book children, paedophiles and decent educated and none educated would read.

    My thoughts cannot ever go to dark places or ‘they’ as the agents of mental illness would see this as psychotic and that would mean certain procedures to that individual. It is only words in a book, but they are truly disturbing to read. The book will never be read and is now in a brown cover and stored far away. It will not stop the words she wrote giving me nightmares on certain pages. As A locum she would know that would affect decent minded persons to read such horrors, and I will not repeat what that strand was.

    I am here because I care. Not for any reward, but for simple human suffering.

    If anyone understands any of this please enlighten me.

    ‘They have taken her’ was heard and Jane did not enter into discussion to object when ‘they’ as Rachel I think, and Kate both came to the stairwell of David Payne as 5D to 5H to search for her.

    Why did Jane not say ‘who are they, Kate’. Why did anyone not say this?

    As to the tea stain, again ‘she likes tea’. Well how would Mr Kidnapper know she and Sean liked sweet milky tea, or not? Where would he get the brew from if it was to lace sedatives to the child and not kill her or he in doing so?

    How would he get such sedatives?

    How would he know much to lace tea with the night before, IF that is the suggestion of the stain on the Eeyore pink top of the missing pyjamas on the fateful night.

    Find that out and you have a more sinister reason for an abduction as she is now fearing put in print.

    It is simply where the mind does not go.

    It hopes, it thinks rational and even is an abuse survivor does not ever descend into an abyss.

    Such images from the words come at you like an ice road truck out of control.

    Dare I think phenobarbitone, or other drugs that were used due to the tiredness and the apathy?

    No I may have it in my mind and write it here as a fear, but reject it.

    Like I reject all of it, except a simple explanation.

    She walked out the open patio door when Gerry went and flushed the chain, or someone flushed the chain.

    She had a fall and concussion due to her looking out the window and fell. Her concussion then led her to be taken by someone, or she went and is still where she could not summon help.

    Is that beyond the realms of possibility?

  51. 51
    Taurus Says:

    Police oracle.

    I look forward to the MET reviewing this case, perhaps their first port of call should be Leicestershire. The PJ needed a reconstruction. If you are police officers then you would know that the Timeline doesn’t make sense! It places the father in the apartment with the abductor, then standing outside chatting, whilst witnessed by another member of the group. Is is really then possible, far from being ‘left home alone’ Madeleine actually disappeared DURING one of the checks. Afterall, she was gone before her father returned to his meal.

    The very people who could clear this up, with co-operation was the friends of the McCanns, the McCanns themselves never refused. Is a reconstruction really too late?

  52. 52
    Liz Y Says:

    Taurus, The reason the reconstruction was vetoed, was a little blinder, get in touch with all of your friends and tell them to refuse to co-operate, then, the McCanns, could claim they were willing but….. Let’s not forget for a moment, these people have the best brains in the country working for them. Be that as it may, we won’t go away.

  53. 53
    Dawn Says:

    Hi, I have been reading this intermittently over a long period of time….and would like to add a few therories of my own as I ‘felt in my heart’ all was not right with this case form the moment it broke. This slightly hinged on Maddies distinctive eye. Well until it was pointed out to us all would we have really noticed it….? Especially in a strangers childs eye. It only became noticable once we knew about it. From that I’m deducing tha the childrens day care staff may not have even noticed it either….so….if Madeleine was not at one session it would not have been so obvious. Even less obvious on refecting back. Especially as a group of childrens carers worked together (unknown how many and for how long and in what capacity) But if they had (let us say) 15 kids and each time they checked they had 15 kids…time and time again…and it checked with their records…And these particular children varied each days depending on their parents choices. How can the child carers KNOW FOR CERTAIN they actually had Madeleine in 3rd, or even the 2nd. or even the 1st. I don’t know how they identify the kids. Remember these kids are too young to read…so if they had a band on their wrist, or a hand-written sticky label or something with their name on and they had the wrong band on (accidently or deliberately) who would really know other than the parents/relatives. The point I’m making is….could Madeleine have died even as early as the night she was crying and shrieked Mummy! The silence….(as heard by Mrs Fenn). Perhaps she even died as the result of someting terrible being done to her….see paragraph below.

    Now as for the reason as to why a mere GP and consultant (no big fish in the general scheme of things)…they may have been aware of, or even party to some pretty nasty paedophile stuff, even involving David Payne and ‘others’ at the resort who are not mentioned but could have been there because the McCanns were….

    They also tell us that Madeleine was a happy child. Now I’m going to discuss something of my experience…….I was abused from within my family…from around aged 4 (my earliest memories). Part of my family group was a paedophile. I never spoke of it…because I had been groomed that it was O.K. Well last year I went through my mothers photos albums of all of us growing up. My dearest of friends said she could see it in my eyes, my body language etc., I had never told her until then. She was also able to point out the perpetrator by his body language too. She also says she can see it in Madeleine, in her eyes, her face, her body language.

    So, there we have some theories…

    Also, if the plane was used to move Madeleine….why bring Madeleine back to put in the hire car (which happens to be the same hire car that the McCanns used…bit of bad luck there, because if they had used a differnt car it may never haave come to light for the dog to find her scent in a car later on…) unless the plane was used to move her our of the immediate area to a freezer or similar and the car to move her futher afield for burial at a later date.

    Another thing…Det. Amoral may well have been taken off the case…and out of his job…but they did not own his brain, his mind. He will, if he is a good Detective, be mulling this over and have theories of his own which will evolve over time. Perhaps our blogs, forums and general other musings might, just might, be the little piece that HE needs to fit together much more than we can even dream of. So keep up the musings, ponderings and keep them coming to this site. And pray without ceasing that Madeleines truth may come out, and she can be found and (if necessary) buried with the love of all of us mother, and the dignity she deserves! That is all for now…..

  54. 54
    Beverly Says:

    Interesting thoughts from Dawn; I have had similar ones about the children’s club in relation to timing of what happened to Maddie and when. I also recall reading at the time (no ref. to give) that a boat which had been moored in the marina for two years – without being moved in all that time, and owned by a British person – allegedly went out from the marina for the first time in two years on the night of 3 May. I read nothing afterwards as to whether this was investigated.

    Similarly, the alleged mileage on the hire car was apparently in the region of 500 miles (that might be km). It was justified by GM in terms of ‘trips to the airport’. I wonder if that was investigated further.

    Hope and pray for the truth and justice to emerge for this child.

  55. 55
    Dawn Says:

    Thanks Beverly…..I did not know about the boat in the Marina…..So that boat could have been waiting for the carrier of Madeleine (seen by the Martins….)were they near the Marina or was the man carrying ‘a child’ heading for the Marina…he appeared to be going downhill ?to water?. Then (perhaps) taken to another bay/beach to be met by the plane? Perhaps the priest being replaced was because he ‘knew too much’? There also seems to be much interchanging of clothes on the McCann children. This happens in families I know…but would help to ‘disguise Madeleines scent/DNA/Cadaverine’. How do we know that the clothes (allegedly) of Madeleines were even worn by her. (These little ones of 3/4 can get great delight in trying each others clothes on between themselves and their siblings/friends – it’s called dressing-up!) I think I’m going to try and get Google Maps and Google street level for that area (if it’s available – where I live isn’t yet) to get a feel for the area better. This is really intriguing me. With Ben Needham there is just a deep sense of sadness…with Madeleine there is a huge sense of outrage!!

  56. 56
    I Don't Believe It Says:

    Dawn, some very telling insights there. Thank you for sharing them.

    Who knows for certain what role paedophilia did or did not play in this… All we know for certain is that we have the Gaspar statement alleging paedophile-style behaviour by Payne/GMC. But I do indeed respect your view of the case, speaking as you do as a survivor.

    I certainly don’t accept the McCann “happy child” narrative. They claim that there was no chance of Madeleine getting up in the middle of the night in Portugal and yet at home they had a “star chart” rewarding her for those occasions when she did not get up in the middle of the night. This is a direct contradiction. The club staff I seem to recall also described Madeleine as being somewhat quiet and withdrawn.

  57. 57
    Dawn Says:

    Adding on to post 53. I and my husband worked in a seniors home for many years. It was not until I mentioned it one day (after three years seeing these folk daily) that ANYONE even noticed I was the only person there with brown eyes…everyone else had shades of blue/grey. Si, easier to misss her eye than you would think!

  58. 58
    I Don't Believe It Says:

    Beverly,

    We certainly have the reference by the Tapas 7 themselves to a boating accident (the same day I think as the disappearance) where one of the men had to be rescued – pulled out of the water – by another. One reads the rogatory interviews and one despairs because these loose ends are never properly followed up. There were so many odd occurences on that holiday that never got followed up!

    The trip to Huelva is certainly a very odd occurence in itself. Why make this one foray into Spain? On a day when the shops are shut! It was a lot of effort – for what? They could have flown to Madrid and had a far, far bigger impact in Spain. But no – they had to take the hire car to Spain.

    The car was indicated by the dogs. What more can one say?

  59. 59
    I Don't Believe It Says:

    Dawn –

    re your 55 post. I think we have to be really careful in this case, so as not to get carried away by web legend.

    The Priest having to retire is a good example. People kind of leap to the conclusion he knew something about Madeleine’s disappearance, possibly via a confession. I think that is highly unlikely. If I recall correctly I think he was actually put out by the way the McCanns used the media and the crisis came after they were made arguidos (suspects). I think at that point the Church hierarchy were p’d off with him for having been duped by the McCanns into allowing them special access to Church facilities. Quite rightly so.

  60. 60
    Dawn Says:

    Thanks I still have much reading to do with this case…having only recently found this forum

  61. 61
    I Don't Believe It Says:

    Dawn –

    I am sure you are right about eye colour. Many women get v. angry with their boyfriends who have no idea what their eye colour is!

    My experience of holiday club staff and (expensive) nursery school staff in the UK make me doubt whether they would have been able to distinguish between children wearing similar clothing if they had the same general features.

  62. 62
    Dawn Says:

    I agree…my own were fairly similar (and 11 months between them)…if one was sick and kept home they regularly called the other the wrong name. Did I read somewhere that another child (4th) shared their bedroom…was this true? And would this help the illusion for the twins (in the dark) that Madeleine was there with them if they woke up and saw a sleeping child in the other bed. (perhaps a night after Madeleine had died and been removed?)

  63. 63
    Taurus Says:

    As I have learned to my cost in another case unless you are trained in what to look for and have been to the exact location it is not something you can see on google earth when a town.
    Try looking at Pamalam website photographs from those who have been there including I.

    Colin shared the same methods as I then some days later. He is now deceased and came from Skipton in Yorkshire. His images are on there too.

  64. 64
    Beverly Says:

    Hello Dawn and I Don’t Believe It – interesting material, and frankly a relief to see this debated -what with all the suppression of debate in the media.

    About the priest – I do recall reading that, after some weeks, it is alleged that the priest at the local church changed his whole demeanour and behaviour – from an outgoing man in touch with all his parishioners, to something of a virtual recluse who shut himself away. It was reported that his whole personality had changed; he was no longer the man he had been. It was also alleged that he said “I have been deceived.” I cannot give a ref. but I did read it.

    Re the twins sleeping through: I have read that the McCs allegedly declined to have the twins tested for medication (a hair test), waited six months and then, after haircuts, had the test, which was then negative. I have never seen this followed up in the reports. KM was apparently also trained in anaesthetics, and I have not seen this debated either.

    From the evidence of the sniffer dogs someone died in apartment 5a – blood was spilled and cleaned up, and a cadaver was held in the apartment, with alleged traces in the lounge, bedroom, wardrobe, and on the patio stairs.

    I have read here before (I think from Administrator) that possibly the timeline is very different to the one we have been given – possibly relating to the crying that Mrs. Fenn heard (on the night of 1 or 2 May?) – and with time taken afterwards to decide as a group what to do. That feels credible.

    One other point: the distance of the tapas bar from the apartment. Even up to last week, the D. Express in the UK was full of contradictions: in their written article, the bar was nearby; nothing odd in parents dining there. In the map produced, however, the bar is shown at the other side of the swimming pool, and there is no view at all of the apartment from that point. It was absolutely NOT “like dining in our back garden”. Impossible to understand how a supposedly intelligent group of young-ish parents did not set up tables and chairs on the patio of 5a, buy food in from the tapas bar, as many bottles as they wanted, and stay near to their children. Can anyone imagine leaving three children under the age of four in an unlocked, darkened apartment for hours alone every night, just to have a wretched “meal” with friends. It beggars belief. I can’t believe that the media could be THAT naive as to swallow this, and the distance of the tapas bar from the apartment – but they appear to have done so. Maybe there is more yet to understand and emerge about media behaviour. I sincerely hope so.

  65. 65
    Beverly Says:

    Re: “They’ve taken her ..”. It is alleged that KM was heard to cry this out at the discovery. But it does not make any sense to me at all. At the first traumatic discovery of a child missing at night, surely the first terrified impulse and panic for a mother would be: “I can’t find Maddie .. I can’t find her .. she’s not here ..”.

    I don’t see how the mind of a terribly distressed and frightened mother would find the words “They’ve taken her ..” in such a desperate situation – unless it was a comment that burst out because “taking her” had been pre-arranged; that is – a removal had been pre-arranged – and then see – look at the horror of it – it has been done. Only my thoughts but it has never added up.

  66. 66
    Roy Exeter Says:

    Hi everyone, i hope you dont mind me joining in, only because i, like the rest of you, want this sorted out, and hopefully to a nice favourable conclusion,
    where maddie is found!!!!.

    i’m sure all this has already been thought of, but i’ll raise these points just the same.

    I have a few thoughts, which might stir a few more questions, because this case MUST be solved,
    even if it takes many lifetimes. this can not be ignored, or simply swept under the carpet.
    we can not let this go away. we must keep pestering anyone, and everyone involved.

    I am no expert, but if maddie was still alive, wouldn’t she have been found by now.
    its usually the case, isn’t it?.

    am i right in thinking that she would be about 8 years old now?.
    going by that, my point is this…maddie’s picture has been all over the worlds t’vs, and newspapers. for the last few years one couldn’t, or still cant in many places go anywhere without seeing a picture of maddie’s sweet face.
    surely now at 8, she watches tv, wouldn’t she have recognised herself by now?, and innocently asked a few childish questions!?…you know what kids are like…its what i would have done.
    what about teachers!, surely if alive, she would attend school somewhere!.
    even if she was hidden and had private tutors, especially if she is living with a rich family.
    money talks, and can help to hide, or even disguise people….why not maddie too?.

    if not that, what about her new neighbours…if shes alive, she must live somewhere in this world.
    surely the arrival of a strange new child, with all the many pictures about, would have raised a few red flags. not many people are blind to this case, if any at all.
    surely someone somewhere would have added up 2 and 2, and made 5 by now…if maddie was alive!.

    if Maddie died by accident.
    why didn’t the parents, just say so at the time?.
    innocent accidents happen all the time. we’ve all read about them, it is not nice to be reminded, but kids do die in accidents!.
    and if it was an accident, by doing it this way, the parents have made rods for their own backs.
    no one likes hearing about children dying,and it would have been heart breaking to report it, but it would have saved them an awfull lot of anguish.
    also, by doing it this way, they have forever kept themselves in the spotlight.
    untill this is sorted out, their lives will never be at peace, and out of the public eye, and away from the wagging fingers, innocent or not.

    i will just leave you with this question…..for now. (i will be back!)
    this is one of my bug bears for this whole case, it might seem trivial to you,
    so please forgive me, i just want what is best for maddie, therefore i dont care how stupid this might seem.
    if it was all about abduction, ie abducting children….
    then why not take the twins also?.or instead?.

    is it just me, but something, somewhere just dosent add up!.

    i hope this child is found alive, but with each day!, week!!, month!!!, year even that passes!,
    i fear the worst scenario of all..
    maddie is dead, and has been at least since that particular night.

    i would love to be proved wrong.

    so come on you police, you investigators….investigate!!!, do your job.
    turn/kick over every stone, and if people get in your way, kick them out of the way also.
    any red tape…cut it in half. there is only one thing that matters in this case…….
    MADDIE.

    like i said earlier, this case must be solved one way or the other, even if it is to prevent yet another child going missing in the same way.

    i hope i have made some sense here, perhaps what i have said means nothing, but with all of our thoughts working together collectively and perhaps added to mine, it could mean something.

    hopefully some clever detectives out there, will eventually pull their fingers out, by putting it all together.
    thankyou for letting me join in.

    IF MADDIE IS NOT DEAD……..WHERE IS SHE?.

    take care
    Roy Exeter.

  67. 67
    I Don't Believe It! Says:

    Hi Roy –

    Some observations on yours:

    1. There is no reason to think, if Maddie really was abducted, that she would have been found by now. There have been a number of cases in recent years of people behing kidnapped in childhood and held in seclusion until adulthood. However, there are not many cases of young children being kidnapped at such a young age and not harmed. That is very unusual – possibly unpredecented (not that you’ll ever hear the McCanns admit that).

    2. Some people have speculated that if a professional couple’s child had died accidentally they might well have covered up the fact if the child had been given some sort of sedative and had been effectively abandoned in the evenings along with her siblings. Of course, no one has proof of this.
    But in such circumstances a professional couple would know they faced vilification in the press, the possible end of their careers (for improper use of medication), prosecution for child abandonment and loss of the siblings on return to UK. So it is not an unreasonable hypothesis for the police to consider.

    3. A single abductor might not have felt able to take away three children at once, assuming they wished to – which would not be a given.

    4. The case is baffling from many angles. However if you accept the evidence of the cadaver dogs, you accept she is dead.

  68. 68
    Dawn Says:

    Hi Roy, You make an interesting point about the present Madeleine (if she is still alive. Let us presume for a moment she is, and living with a family ‘somewhere’!) Sometime soon as the years go on she will start to find out about this case….. She may even, once 18, decide to have a DNA test on herself…not so wild an idea…adopted kids have done this (including my step-granddaughter) to try and trace their birth family when their adoptive parents are reticent to give information.

    Also, at the time, with all the hue and cry, if a child suddenly ‘appeared in a family aged almost 4’, folk ‘notice’…! All the new family members, adult siblings, cousins, aunt’s etc., would be wondering and questioning!! If someone in my communtiy ‘suddenly had a 4 year old’ and it coincided with a large nedia circus…I would wonder where that 4 year old came from? If I suddenly had a four year old…..all my neighbours tongues would be wagging…and IF this coincided with an abduction I have no doubt the police would be on my doorstep pretty quick…and quite right too!!

    The point I’m making is that Madeleins family (and their Tapas friends) HAD to know Madeleine was dead….yes, some of you will say that my points are the very reason they had a media circus…so ‘someone would notice’ and Madeleine would be found and returned.

    This would only hold water if the McCanns followed it up by physically looking themselves…which they didn’t. When ‘sitings of Madeleine were noted around the world…where were the McCanns…with the Pope, fundraising etc., NOT on the next plane to see the ‘sitings of Madeleine’ for themselves!! To see if it really was their precious daughter……

    Anyways just further musings. Thanks Roy……

  69. 69
    sophie Says:

    I believe that the Mccanns are involved in something of a more sinister nature, and something went down in that apartment that night that was pre arranged with an unexpected outcome. Hence the surprised outburst by kate “they have taken her”. The Mccanns conveniently left the door opened so that this person/s could enter and exit without being noticed. This “visitor” could have easily been mistaken for one of the tapas members, because there was a lot of movement to and from the apartment that night.

    According to Kate’s statement she said “ we failed her”. Why would she think that they failed her? Unless it was not part of the agreement to remove her from the apartment by whomsoever visited the apartment that night. Gerry’s regret was that “he was not there when she – Maddie was taken”.

    Regarding the fighting fund. I have always believed that the money was used to pay someone off. They may have used the funds to pay off someone who knows what went down that night. Someone who has full knowledge of where Maddie is and who is using that to extort money from the Mccanns. Why else would the Mccanns insist that Scotland Yard get involved or that the case be reopened if Maddie was no longer alive?

    So many children go missing every day and not a squeak is heard about it on the news. Instead we were flooded with press and media coverage sympathetic to the Mccanns. How is it that two doctors from a tiny town – Rothley , has all of these connections from the media, the Prime Minister and other key politicians, the Royal Family, celebrities etc? Why were the Mccanns give such special treatment even though it was their own blatant disregard for the safety of their children that led to the disappearance of their child?

  70. 70
    Roy Exeter Says:

    hi everyone, and thanks for conversing with me on this dawn.
    i have been thinking about this all day long, and i have come up with another theory,
    which might have been mentioned before, but as of yet i havent seen anything along these new lines of me. let me run it by you, then please tell me what you think

    correct me if i am wrong, but isnt there something written, that maddie’s mum kate say something like…”she is safe with another family”…please feel free to tell me exactly what she said, but i dont think i am far wrong.
    my point to this is, how would she know this?
    which draconian though it seems, gives rise to this next thought of mine.
    i dont know how else to water it down, so i’ll just come right out with it.
    did she sell her daughter?.

    i have read about kids being sold into prostitution.
    sorry people, i know it sounds utterly fantastic, but everything, no matter how wild has got to be explored.

    thing is, as draconian as i sound, if i was right about this, it would be in some ways good,
    meaning MADDIE IS STILL ALIVE…meaning MADDIE CAN BE FOUND…she is still out there.

    perhaps the police were on to a child selling ring, and if that was the case, then i bet maddie wasn’t the first, nor will she be the last, unless the police can smash it apart.
    didn’t i also see something about another little child that went missing in that same country, about 2 years before…if so…could this be linked.

    if you can see a map about that part of that country, though i’m no expert, there seem to be an awful lot of different ways out, borders, sea ways, cheap flights etc, etc, so…is my child selling theory that proposterous.

    the clues are all there.
    for me the patio doors is going to hang them the most.
    and if that was the father carrying maddie(dead)…..where did he take her?.
    where could he bury her.
    i read somewhere, someone said under some rocks,
    surely, but with respect sir, a cadaver dog, trained in this field would have found her by now.
    i have heard it said, that one sure fire way of getting rid of a corpse, especially a childs, would be to feed her to the pigs…i know it sounds terrible, and i hate saying it, i am just trying to help. either way, she has to be found, be it alive (hopefully!), or as suspected…dead.
    yes her body has to be found, and brought back home, and justice has to prevail…at least for maddie.
    what should happen, (it wont!)is for the whole world to club together, ie with money and stuf and bring in the worlds best and hardest detectives, and phycologists,people who dont take prisoners, and give them all cart blanc, so they can be free to do whatever it takes to get and extract any infomation we need, even to the point of torture if need be, and all they do is rubbed their heads together, and focus whole heartedly on this, untill alive, or dead, she is found.

    yeah, there i go again..with my draconian talk, but sometimes desperate messures also require desperate remedys.
    like i said in another post, this can not be allowed to turn into one of those never ending conspiracy theories. at the moment it has only been 4 years, the longer this goes on, the harder it is going to be for the favourable outcome, that we all want.

    i will leave this here for now, and look forward to your valuable coments and input.

    i reckon we are all closer to the real truth, then what we think.
    i have got a funny feeling that this is going to be solved very soon.
    i can almost hear the prison doors slamming shut….can you?.
    god help them if they are lying…huh!.

    i have nothing to gain from these posts, i am just the normal working guy in the street.
    at first i too swallowed the abduction bit, untill i wised up and started reading.
    bottom line….they are doctors, and doctors wouldn’t do such terrible things….

    yeah right, i bet they said that about doctor crippen to.

    i’d like to thank the people whom brought the forum part to this site, and please untill maddie is found either way…keep it going, because by doing this, i feel like i am helping in some way, and i am not completly useless after all.

    thankyou everyone….and keep asking your questions.
    who knows, one day one of you, perhaps me, will hit the right key.

    take care
    Roy Exeter

  71. 71
    sophie Says:

    I admire your optimism. But sadly i fear that this case would never be solved for one simple fact: For reasons unknown, the McCanns are protected by some very powerful people. If they were not , then this case would have been solved from the very beginning. There would not have been any Tapas pact, or the refusal by the McCanns to answer the questions of the Portugese police and the many inconsistencies in their stories would have seen them behind bars a long long time ago.
    This case bears striking similarities to another unsolved mystery -the Jon Bennett murder.

  72. 72
    sophie Says:

    Roy:
    I admire your optimism. But sadly i fear that this case would never be solved for one simple fact: For reasons unknown, the McCanns are protected by some very powerful people. If they were not , then this case would have been solved from the very beginning. There would not have been any Tapas pact, or the refusal by the McCanns to answer the questions of the Portugese police and the many inconsistencies in their stories would have seen them behind bars a long long time ago.
    This case bears striking similarities to another unsolved mystery -the Jon Bennett murder.

  73. 73
    Roy Exeter Says:

    hi everyone, and thanks for conversing with me on this dawn.
    i have been thinking about this all day long, and i have come up with another theory,
    which might have been mentioned before, but as of yet i havent seen anything along these new lines of mine. let me run it by you, then please tell me what you think.

    correct me if i am wrong, but isnt there something written, that maddie’s mum kate said something like…”she is safe with another family”…please feel free to tell me exactly what she said, but i dont think i am far wrong.
    my point to this is, how would she know this?
    and “they’ve taken her!”…fogive my ignorance, but who are “THEY!”?.
    DONT “THEY” MEAN, MORE THEN ONE?.
    again,same question……how could she know this?.
    which draconian though it seems, gives rise to this next thought of mine.
    i dont know how else to water it down, so i’ll just come right out with it.
    did she sell her daughter?.

    i have read about kids being sold into prostitution.
    sorry people, i know it sounds utterly fantastic, but everything, no matter how wild has got to be explored.

    thing is, as draconian as i sound, if i was right about this, it would be in some ways good,
    meaning MADDIE IS STILL ALIVE…meaning MADDIE CAN BE FOUND…she is still out there.

    perhaps the police were on to a child selling ring, and if that was the case, then i bet maddie wasn’t the first, nor will she be the last, unless the police can smash it apart.

    didn’t i also see something about another little child that went missing in that same country, about 2 years before…if so…could this be linked.

    if you can see a map about that part of that country, though i’m no expert, there seems to be an awful lot of different ways out, borders, sea ways, cheap flights etc, etc, so…is my child selling theory that proposterous?.

    the clues are all there.
    for me the patio doors is going to hang them the most.
    they should speak to the patio door designers….they would know the difference between the 2 stories…wouldn’t they!?.

    and if that was the father carrying maddie(dead)…..where did he take her?.
    where could he bury her.
    i am sure that i read somewhere on here,that someone said under some rocks.
    surely, but with respect sir, a cadaver dog, trained in this field would have found her by now.
    that is what they do, and they are seldom wrong.

    also, i have heard it said, that one sure fire way of getting rid of a corpse, especially a childs, would be to feed her to the pigs.apparently they’d eat the lot, bones an all, and a childs bones, would be no problem at all.
    i know it sounds terrible, and i hate saying it, i am just trying to help. either way, she has to be found, be it alive (hopefully!), or as suspected…dead.

    yes her body has to be found, and brought back home, and justice has to prevail…at least for maddie.

    i would like to think that even as i write this, she is still being investigated.

    whati think should happen, (it wont!)is for the whole world to club together, ie with money and stuff and bring in the worlds best and hardest detectives, and phycologists,people who dont take prisoners, and give them all cart blanc, so they can be free to do whatever it takes to get and extract any infomation they need, even to the point of torture if need be, and all they do is rubbed their heads together, and focus whole heartedly on this, untill alive, or dead, she is found.

    yeah, there i go again..with my draconian talk, but sometimes desperate messures also require desperate remedies.

    like i said in another post, this can not be allowed to turn into one of those never ending conspiracy theories. at the moment it has only been 4 years, the longer this goes on, the harder it is going to be for the favourable outcome, that we all want.

    i will leave this here for now, and look forward to your valuable coments and input.

    i reckon we are all closer to the real truth, then what we think.

    i have got a funny feeling that this is going to be solved very soon.
    i can almost hear the prison doors slamming shut….can you?.
    god help them if they are lying…huh!.

    i am not a police man, or anything special, and i have nothing to gain from these posts,
    i am just the normal working guy in the street…..one who cares!!!.

    at first i too swallowed the abduction bit, untill i wised up and started reading.
    bottom line….they are doctors, and doctors wouldn’t do such terrible things….would they!?.

    yeah right, i bet they said that about doctor crippen to.

    i’d like to thank the people whom brought the forum part to this site, and please untill maddie is found either way…keep it going, because by doing this, i feel like i am helping in some way.

    thankyou everyone….and keep asking your questions.
    who knows, one day one of you, perhaps me, will hit the right key.

    take care
    Roy Exeter

  74. 74
    I Don't Believe It! Says:

    I tend to agree with you Sophie. Beginning with the way that Gordon Brown – who at the time was a Chancellor of the Exchequer (not Prime Minister, Foreign Secretary, Justice Minister or even their local MP)- flung his influence upon this case, it is seems to have been characterised by important people doing the McCanns a favour. Another outrageous instance was the way Mrs Justice Hogg declared them innocent in court even before the Portugese prosecutor had given his view of the evidence. And the fact that a (secret, originally) injunction had been passed requiring all official agencies to co-operate with them, even while they were criminal suspects in Portugal really tops it!

    They won’t be undermined by Scotland Yard or the Government. The only possibility of advance I would say will come from Portugal or maybe a writer from America producing a hard-hitting book.

  75. 75
    Dawn Says:

    Hi Roy, and others, Roy, I’m new on this forum too…very new, only been writing a few days since finding this forum…! (But thinking about this for years!) Perhaps you could read through previous posters on this forum (as I have done) and scroll to the top and to your right you will see a few headings, in red, with some other forum/articles too. I have read lots, (I’m sure you have too) but some of your queries may be answered in your readings and personal musings….) I don’t have many answers to the questions you have…but I’m sure others here do have….or at least plausible theories too

    What I will say is that many, many of us (I would not like to estimate the quantity!), on these pages and elsewhere online are completely OUTRAGED at the McCanns and what has happen to Madeleine!. The arrogance of those involved, and all the Tapas 7 or 9 (or whatever), and all of those who seem to us to be protecting them…..all of them….at the expense of Madeleine, maybe the twins and maybe the children of the Tapas group too!

    There is too much that is being covered up, too many lies and it stinks. Too many know too much and they are all protecting A$$*$ (Sorry folk about my inuendo!). We all want to get to the bottom of this AND we ALL WANT the TRUTH EXPOSED AND JUSTICE FOR MADELEINE!

    Your theories are no more outlandish and than anyone elses IF you can back up your theories with information that you read here or elsewhere. What is true about your theories is that any one of your theories COULD HAVE HAPPENED. SADLY, ONE OF THEM DID!

    With enough theories, perhaps one of those who has been investigating officially will find that this forum gives them just the tiniest idea to piece it all together AND THEN THE CONFIDENCE to bring it forward and follow it through…..

    Keep looking, please Roy, and learning, and pondering, and getting involved. We can work at this together…..for Madeleine. (Because, such as heck, her family are not going to! ) Thanks…..

  76. 76
    Roy Exeter Says:

    thanks dawn and sophie.
    sophie first, i fear that you are absolutly spot on.
    it shouldn’t be like that…a crime has been commited here,
    weather its neglect, after perhaps one day finding maddie live, or man’slaughter, or perhaps murder.
    we must keep going on about this, forever, if need be. untill this is solved either with help from people like us, or by the law, this must never be allowed to simply be forgotten about.
    it just cant go away.
    they probably think (wrongly!) that if they leave it long enough, we’ll all get bored, and move on.
    (if they think that, then they know nothing about us!)
    but if we do that, where will justice come from for maddie?.
    they call people like us evil, but we’re not, its because we care we are doing it.
    and if we are evil, then what do you call parents who leave their kids home alone?.
    what do you call parents who cant even be bothered to go and look, even whilst the rest of the folk are out looking.
    i watched the doc earlier on, “maddie was here”.
    yes,mum looks good, dosent look like a conspiritor, but she has had plenty of time to spruce up her act. i remember a time, right after the incident, when she couldn’t even look into the camera.
    did you ever notice that.
    i would love to buy a copy of the policemans book that was banned.
    question is….why was it banned?.
    could it have been, that is was alluding too close for comfort too the truth.
    i notice her book madeliene hasn’t been banned.
    she is going to make money out of us, because she knows damn well, that us so called evil people will buy it. is this what this had all been about…..money?.
    sorry, but you’ve got to ask it, havent you?.
    i bet, they will be a lot richer now, then they ever were before maddie disapeared.
    should pay for some more holidays then…eh.
    one of these days, it might get too much for her….she’ll crack.
    people say it was an accident, well fine, then why cant she just for once tell the truth, like she should have done from the start…but i have a problem with this accident theory.
    blood was found, wasn’t it?….maddies blood…not just in one place ie 5a, but in a vehicle a while afterwards….which gives me another theory.
    possible scenario…probably wrong, and i make no apologies for saying it.

    lets just say that they were all about to go out to this tapas place for a meal.
    maddie played up..as kids often do, because she wanted to go too.
    apparently the table had been book…but just as they were going out, maddie threw a wobbly
    and decided that she wasn’t going to be a good girl and go too boring bed.
    there was an altercation…mum lost her temper,(remember maddie was reported crying none stop for about 70 minutes!)could this had been that child against adult altercation?. and in a blind one second fit of rage, she shook maddie, accidentally smashing her head against the wall behind the soafa, or the place where blood was found….maddies blood….it could have happpened this way.
    i mean what mother has had to put up with a kid full of tantrums.
    its not murder, i’m sure she didn’t mean it, but she took a life.
    maddies body suddenly went limp….she was dead.
    oh no….what does kate do now?.
    she has to think of something.
    she calls hubby…naturaly he is upset,who wouldn’t be but he loves his wife, and knows what the implications would mean.
    so…here begins operation cover up.
    someone simular to him is seen carrying what looks like a child…
    being wealthy doctors, did they have another unknown place in that area.
    perhaps they did….and it had a freezer.
    what better place to keep a body, untill they can calm down, get their stories right, whilst they think about how to despose of maddie.
    a little while later, instead of burying her, where a cadaver dog would find her, why not at sea.
    he was a doctor, he would know how to cut open someone..so whoes to say that he didn’t cut her open, and weigh her down with rocks, long enough for the sharks etc to finish her off!!.
    there i go being all draconion again….i dont apologies.
    ok..if i’m wrong…..prove me wrong….i would love to be wrong!.
    i think every one of us on this site, would love to also be wrong.
    but remember what i alluded to in another past post of mine…every single avenue must be checked, no matter how terrible it sounds, or even how miniscule and trivial.
    if we dont do things like this, we wouldn’t be doing right by maddie.

    am i really so wrong?. and if so….how wrong am i?.
    indeed…how close am i, and the rest of us here to being right?.

    i am with you…it stinks
    its bad enough anyone being killed under strange circumstances, but this is/was a beautiful innocent child. it almost makes a grown man want to cry when you look at that pretty face, with her beautiful blond hair trailing like a little madam off the top of her tiny scalp.
    yeah….something stinks alright.
    lies and dishonestly always stink….dont you think.

    i’ll leave it here for now.
    we’ll speak again, and we will keep speaking untill some bright spark of a detective gets his head out of the sand, and solves this.
    come on police….we are all behind you on this.

    thankyou for your time
    take care
    Roy Exeter

  77. 77
    Roy Exeter Says:

    the more i read about this, and i have read loads, the thicker and thicker the plot gets, and from what i can see, does the MCcann family no favours at all.
    i have read many conspiracy theories on lots of different incidents, but this one must never end up as just a conspiracy theory, for people to muse over in years to come.
    i have read them all, and have secretly decypered most of them, going by the facts and clues given.
    but the maddie story is different.
    we are talking about a little innocent girl here. there are so many inconcistencies.
    i want maddie to be alive, but with everything i have read so far….i still fear the worst.
    it must never be another oswald, jfk thing, not another Elvis dead or a live thing, or another Paul Macartney dead or alive thing.
    this has got to have an answer to it.

    among the many things that bothers me about this.
    i reckon most mothers would say this to,
    what parent, or self respecting mother would happily go out, and leave their children all alone, especially in a foriegn country on holiday, irrespective if they usually trusted the resort or not.
    it dosent matter how close you might be eating, they are still alone.
    and whilst alone, anything can happen.
    they could get up, switch on a cooker or something, pull a hot kettle over themselves, or even get kidnapped and killed. these are suppose to be doctors. i mean who could trust a doctor who would do a thing like that.
    bottom line folks….YOU DO NOT GO OUT, AND LEAVE YOUR KIDS HOME ALONE, OR ANYWHERE ALONE.
    even i know that, and i’m only a mere bloke.
    most women i know, wouldn’t go anywhere too far from her kids, unless at least she had a baby sitter, else most women would entertain such a ludicrous notion.

    i am right arn’t i ladies?.

    just supposin (which would be nice!) that maddie was found alive an well, even after all these years, would she still be allowed to go back to her original parents again?.
    i have heard about lots of cases where children get taken away into care, because of parents doing the very same thing…so why are the rules different for maddie’s parents.
    is it because being doctors, they can knowingly work the system in their own favour.
    if that is so, isn’t that a tad unfair?.
    or am i just being a mere bloke here, and i dont really understand, or am i absolutely spot on.
    i dont have any kids, i wish i did, and even as a mere bloke, i would never ever leave my kids home alone, not even at home.
    these are the most precious pieces of cargo a human, or any living beast can have.
    could you really, (doctor or not!) put your kids at risk it such a crass way.
    isn’t this a case for neglect?, i am still surprised that they were allowed to keep the twins.
    am i the only one who see’s it this way?.
    you must forgive me, i am only a bloke.

    sorry i have to speak my mind.
    such people, should never be allowed to have children.
    there are lots of women whom would love to have kids, but cant, the sort of people whom would never let her kids down, and i bet there are a few of them now, whom are absolutely p###ed off with these parents.
    i’m no expert, but even i know that being a parent, means just that…you are there to protect them.
    in other words you dont go out leaving them all alone…do you?.
    once you are a mother, your days of clubbing it, drinking, staying out late with your friends, even going out eating and drinking with friends at tapas bars become very limited…you cant have it both ways…you are either a mother, or you are not….which is it?.

    one more thing.
    what about this 4th child!?.
    i have only read bits an pieces about this.
    if it is true, this has got to be looked into too….hasn’t it?.
    it would be rellevent…wouldn’t it?.
    this is very vague at best.
    obviously i am not looking in the right places.
    i want to read a full account of this especially.
    this so called 4th child could be the very key.
    please tell me where to look.

    you all should be congratulated…i love the way you lot are kicking over stones.
    i love the never say die attitude you all seem to have.
    it seems to me that the police are not going to get to the bottom of this, but i reckon with a team collective effort between us….we are.
    i hope they are reading this thurorely, because i bet that the real truth is here within our writings. keep searching you police, because the truth is defanately out there….or here.
    once again, thankyou for letting me join in.

    i only wish it was under better circumstances.
    a little girl is missing, perhaps dead, and that is all that should matter.
    however they get to the truth in the end…..who cares.

    would you do any less for your child.

    take care
    Roy

  78. 78
    Roy Exeter Says:

    i am sorry, my computer had a rush of blood, and accidentally repeated what i posted, on a different part of this site, perhaps i’m tierd!!,tierd of lies!!.
    so please forgive me if you are reading this again.
    perhaps my computer has a mind of its own, and wants everyone of you to read about what i have to say.
    once again sorry
    take care
    Roy Exeter

  79. 79
    sophie Says:

    I Don’t Believe It!:

    Read the Hollie Greig case. The protection and the power around the McCanns is pretty similar and that’s scary. I know that even if the truth were to be revealed, the McCanns would be shielded. I guess that i like so many of us on this site and around the world really need to know what happened to this sweet child even if it is just for closure.

    Have an absolutely fabulous day everyone!!

  80. 80
    I Don't Believe It! Says:

    This might be of particular help to Roy but everyone I think could benefit from reading Paulo Reiss’s well researched piece reminding us of some salient points in this case which I very much doubt KMC addresses in her bestseller.

    http://gazetadigitalmadeleinecase.blogspot.com/2011/04/few-details-worth-remembering-before.html

  81. 81
    Roy Exeter Says:

    LOOKING FOR MADELIENE…….(are they!!?)

    Personally I think that this is the biggest conspiracy ever, especially in our immediate life time. I wonder how it will have been read about, in say…100 years time!.
    Would history say that Maddie was found?.
    or would it be….what we all fear the most?.

    I read somewhere, (I am sure!) that One particular detective, or investigator, be it a private one…whatever!, that Maddie is alive, (well, that is great news!) and also knows not only where she is, but who has got her….well that is equally as brilliant, isn‘t it,…
    if it is true.
    I have always believed, that the proof of any boast, is in eating the pudding.
    Well, if this is indeed true, and is not Bull-Shit, then the response to this is simple, even for a humble poorly paid layman like myself….ie,

    “GO OUT AND GET HER, AND BRING HER HOME!”

    Kick down doors, Use guns if you have to, even if it means taken whomever has got her out…ie killing them. I know it sounds harsh, but I’m sure most of you would agree, that the time of kid gloves is over with.
    No one is going to mourn for him or her, (yes, I said her!, any avenue, remember!)
    No one is going to miss One less dirty pedo in the world….good riddance.
    Sometimes, one has to be cruel, to be kind!.

    The longer it goes on, the harder it might be to find her, especially if she is still alive.
    And if she is still alive, whom is to say, that the people who have her, haven’t changed her appearance…ie perhaps the colour of her hair, or perhaps cut it all off!, I mean what lengths wouldn‘t they go to, to keep a child, that they shouldn‘t have.
    Perhaps they have disguised her as…a boy!!! .
    Who is going to question that?.
    It is not as though adults can search kids….especially these days.
    Teachers, or any adults, have to be very careful, where they put their hands on children, and rightly so to!. Maddie, being a little child, would probably innocently think of dressing up in this way as a game!. Most kids love dressing up, and pretend games…didn’t you?.

    In other words….whatever it takes to get Maddie back.

    Again if this boast is not just hot air, why does it appear that he is kicking his heals
    Has he been stopped?…if so…by whom?…isn’t it in all of our interests for Maddie to be found……now, sooner then later?.
    That so called investigator would be a hero, wouldn’t he?.
    Indeed he could write his own books, and be set up for life…and good luck to him!.
    If he is not Bull-Shitting us…..why don’t he prove it?.

    What is our coalition doing, I would have thought that Mr Cameron especially having kids of his own, would want the same things as us.
    Perhaps it is, but from where I am standing, nothing else seems to be getting done.
    I wonder if Mr Cameron would be dithering if it was One of his children…perish the thought.

    Come on, I’m calling your bluff, fulfil your boast…. Bring Maddie home, or at least to an appropriate adult who would care about her. That’s if there is such a thing for Maddie.
    Right now, I have my doubts.

    Most mothers that I have spoken to, say they would never have gone home, and that they would still be out there now, even if their money ran out, they would live under a rock if they had to, eat off the beach, out of trash cans…so if she cares as much as she purports, then why isn’t she out there? Yes it would be a hardship, but what is Maddie‘s life like at the moment?
    Could she be somewhere alive, crying for her mum, whom is somewhere living off the proceeds of her newly published book?.
    Shame on her!.
    I know they have 2 other children, but surely with dad having to work, (or perhaps he doesn’t now!) relatives would be on hand to look after them, considering the circumstances, and, as I have hinted, Its not as if she, or either of them cant afford it….especially with the new book out…

    ”Madeliene!”

    I tried to buy that today, but it is £15.…but my principles say, that I am not about to help make someone I am not sure that I like….. rich,
    and all this at the expense of Maddie to!.

    I would love to read it.

    Wouldn’t it be great especially for paupers like myself, if the proprietors of this brilliant informative site could post it, or perhaps put relevant extracts from it on here.
    But I suppose if they did that, poor mum wouldn’t make any money, and might not be able to dine at the Tapas bar very much, any more….
    oh no…how my heart bleeds!.

    another thing that bugs me!!!
    with all the boasted technology out there at our disposal, how is it, in this day an age, we cant find just One little Girl, be it dead or alive?.
    They found the Titanic that sunk almost a century ago, (1912!)
    Maddie has only been missing for Four years…
    Perhaps we should get the Titanic’s finders to look for her!.
    I have only just thought about that off the top of my head, and I must say, what a brilliant idea, even for me, a humble layman to come up with.

    It is hard to comprehend that something as appalling as this could happen…but sadly, alas I am afraid to say…it does….as a human race, we don’t seem to have learnt anything…
    What say you?.

    ps….
    i am so glad that i found this site, because believe me, i am not done yet.
    watch this space

    thank you

    Take care
    Roy Exeter

  82. 82
    Roy Exeter Says:

    The strange tale of Robert Murat!.

    thank you I don’t believe it for your link.

    I have been reading the early stages of the above, ie the strange tale of Robert Murat.
    there is so much of it!.
    I have already got problems, and I am only a little way through, with still tons more to read..
    Please understand, that I am not just willy nilly making things up, that are not there, all I have got, is what I am reading in front of me.

    For instance. Miss Tanners evidence is, questionable to say the least.

    It is stated, that She stated that in the early hours of 4 may 2007…alluding to an individual carrying a child wearing pyjamas…correct!!!!?.
    Question…..Why in the early hours?, wasn’t it suppose to be at night?. I am confused!.
    Night comes before the “early hours”, doesn’t it, even in portugal?.

    So what is it…early hours, or the night before?.

    When asked to describe this person, apparently she couldn’t!, because it was dark.
    And here lies another problem…(at least it is with me.)

    How could she be able to tell if the person being carried was wearing pyjamas in the dark?.
    Why not any other type of clothing?.
    Also in her description, I am sure that she mentions the bottoms were beige!.
    Another problem!!.
    Not that I am an expert in fashion, but wouldn’t beige be hard to tell against the dark?
    Perhaps look black, brown, even grey…anything but beige, surely!.

    i am only mentioning it, because this colour was mentioned in the statement that i read.

    She also mentions they were linen type.
    Aren’t we dealing with specifics now?.
    Surely, unless she knew already, how would she be able to tell that specifically.
    To tell this, surely in the dark, she would have needed to be closer, and to have had a really good look…and if she got that close, surely she would have seen if the child was maddie or not!…..or didn’t she know what maddie looked like?.
    Was she not a friend of the family!?.

    Whom can tell linen type, 5 meters away in the dark?…can anyone.
    Isn’t 5 meters about…16 foot?.
    16 foot, is quite a long way away, especially in the dark.
    Check it out for yourselves…put me right even. I don’t mind….
    if I’m doing this, then I want to be correct.

    Ask yourself this….16 feet away, could you tell flower patterns in the dark.
    Right now I am looking at where I know there is a flower bed, and that is even closer the 16 feet, yet I am finding it hard to see flowers, or even twigs.

    Another problem

    How could she tell if it was a Brown male from the back, if she could only see his long hair?, and more importantly, how on earth would she be able to say weather he wasn’t a tourist or not?
    Wouldn’t that be arrogance, thus pulling assumptions out of the air?.
    Could someone be able to pick a flower design (of her bottoms!) in the dark…and against beige.

    Excuse me for seeming ignorant….
    the artist picture I have seen, looks as if it is in the day time, and the bottoms are plain White…not pink, not beige!!. there is quite a contrast between all 3, isn’t there?.

    Being bothered by this,perhaps with too much time on my hands, I have just conducted a small visual experiment.
    I have a beige coloured folder which I keep some of my paperwork in.
    So I emptied it, and took it outside in the dark with me, and put it somewhere,
    Then I looked at it…..in the darkness, at least from about 16 feet away (5 meters!)
    it looks dark at best, its hard to tell, but it defanately dosen’t look beige!.
    Unless of course, there is another shade of beige, that I don’t know about

    have I missed something.

    Sorry, I’m just trying to establish the real truth…from a supposed eye witness.
    trying to be specific on words.

    I’m sure this lady wasn’t with kate when she would have dressed maddie for bed.
    Could she have been told to say this?.

    (Oh by the way, I am from the old school, and only feel comfortable working in feet and inches, that is all they were teaching us, when I was a child!)
    I have even checked on this with a work colleague, and even he says that 5 feet is about 16 feet.
    I trust his judgement….he is an engineer, he has to know…right!!?.

    How could she be certain that it was a man she saw, from 5 meters away, in the dark.
    heres a thought…….Why not a woman?
    Indeed from the back, in the dark, could this supposed dark hair at the back, be a dark hood…indeed….could that person be Kate,a woman….instead of a man carrying a child?.
    could that also be a possibilty!?.

    the plot as they say….thickens!

    And in that case, perhaps dad had nothing to do with it.!.

    i would be more inclined to believe that he had no knowledge of any of it!.

    Why pick on Robert Murat?

    Is it because he is a convenient target?. how well did they know him?.
    perhaps he is well known around there, because he often looks weired, or perhaps that is just the way he is……and perhaps he really is innocent!.
    I am sure that it is mentioned that he had long strands of hair covering his face.
    but she says, she was looking at the back of him.

    another problem!.

    If she is looking from the back….
    Question…..how can she see his face, covered by dark strands of hair….in the dark.
    From the back?.

    In the pictures I have seen of him, he has nice well groomed short back an sides hair.
    Therefore, why of all people, would she pick him out?……it was dark wasn’t it?.
    was he another oswald!!?….another patsy?.

    As you can see, I have given this a lot of thought.
    like I have said, all I have got, is what is in front of me.

    That is all I have read so far.

    I will leave you with this thought, for now

    Does the term digging yourself deeper into the shit….apply here?.

    All these clues that has been written, and pointed out by you great people, cant all be coincidence…can they?.
    Perhaps the odd one by itself?….but all of them!!!!!!!!!?.

    Like one of the name sake posters on here….I don’t believe it…….either!.

    Again, I hope I have made sense here.
    Please point out if I have missed something

    Once again, thank you for your time, and indulgence.

    Take care
    Roy Exeter

  83. 83
    Roy Exeter Says:

    LOOKING FOR MADELIENE…….(are they!!?)

    Personally I think that this is the biggest conspiracy ever, especially in our immediate life time. I wonder how it will have been read about, in say…100 years time!.
    Would history say that Maddie was found?.
    or would it be….what we all fear the most?.

    I read somewhere, (I am sure!) that One particular detective, or investigator, be it a private one…whatever!, that Maddie is alive, (well, that is great news!) and also knows not only where she is, but who has got her….well that is equally as brilliant, isn‘t it,…
    if it is true.
    I have always believed, that the proof of any boast, is in eating the pudding.
    Well, if this is indeed true, and is not Bull-Shit, then the response to this is simple, even for a humble poorly paid layman like myself….ie,

    “GO OUT AND GET HER, AND BRING HER HOME!”

    Kick down doors, Use guns if you have to, even if it means taken whomever has got her out…ie killing them. I know it sounds harsh, but I’m sure most of you would agree, that the time of kid gloves is over with.
    No one is going to mourn for him or her, (yes, I said her!, any avenue, remember!)
    No one is going to miss One less dirty pedo in the world….good riddance.
    Sometimes, one has to be cruel, to be kind!.

    The longer it goes on, the harder it might be to find her, especially if she is still alive.
    And if she is still alive, whom is to say, that the people who have her, haven’t changed her appearance…ie perhaps the colour of her hair, or perhaps cut it all off!, I mean what lengths wouldn‘t they go to, to keep a child, that they shouldn‘t have.
    Perhaps they have disguised her as…a boy!!! .
    Who is going to question that?.
    It is not as though adults can search kids….especially these days.
    Teachers, or any adults, have to be very careful, where they put their hands on children, and rightly so to!. Maddie, being a little child, would probably innocently think of dressing up in this way as a game!. Most kids love dressing up, and pretend games…didn’t you?.

    In other words….whatever it takes to get Maddie back.

    Again if this boast is not just hot air, why does it appear that he is kicking his heals
    Has he been stopped?…if so…by whom?…isn’t it in all of our interests for Maddie to be found……now, sooner then later?.
    That so called investigator would be a hero, wouldn’t he?.
    Indeed he could write his own books, and be set up for life…and good luck to him!.
    If he is not Bull-Shitting us…..why don’t he prove it?.

    What is our coalition doing, I would have thought that Mr Cameron especially having kids of his own, would want the same things as us.
    Perhaps it is, but from where I am standing, nothing else seems to be getting done.
    I wonder if Mr Cameron would be dithering if it was One of his children…perish the thought.

    Come on, I’m calling your bluff, fulfil your boast…. Bring Maddie home, or at least to an appropriate adult who would care about her. That’s if there is such a thing for Maddie.
    Right now, I have my doubts.

    Most mothers that I have spoken to, say they would never have gone home, and that they would still be out there now, even if their money ran out, they would live under a rock if they had to, eat off the beach, out of trash cans…so if she cares as much as she purports, then why isn’t she out there? Yes it would be a hardship, but what is Maddie‘s life like at the moment?
    Could she be somewhere alive, crying for her mum, whom is somewhere living off the proceeds of her newly published book?.
    Shame on her!.
    I know they have 2 other children, but surely with dad having to work, (or perhaps he doesn’t now!) relatives would be on hand to look after them, considering the circumstances, and, as I have hinted, Its not as if she, or either of them cant afford it….especially with the new book out…

    ”Madeliene!”

    I tried to buy that today, but it is £15.…but my principles say, that I am not about to help make someone I am not sure that I like….. rich,
    and all this at the expense of Maddie to!.

    I would love to read it.

    Wouldn’t it be great especially for paupers like myself, if the proprietors of this brilliant informative site could post it, or perhaps put relevant extracts from it on here.
    But I suppose if they did that, poor mum wouldn’t make any money, and might not be able to dine at the Tapas bar very much, any more….
    oh no…how my heart bleeds!.

    another thing that bugs me!!!
    with all the boasted technology out there at our disposal, how is it, in this day an age, we cant find just One little Girl, be it dead or alive?.
    They found the Titanic that sunk almost a century ago, (1912!)
    Maddie has only been missing for Four years…
    Perhaps we should get the Titanic’s finders to look for her!.
    I have only just thought about that off the top of my head, and I must say, what a brilliant idea, even for me, a humble layman to come up with.

    It is hard to comprehend that something as appalling as this could happen…but sadly, alas I am afraid to say…it does….as a human race, we don’t seem to have learnt anything…
    What say you?.

    thank you

    Take care
    Roy Exeter

  84. 84
    Roy Exeter Says:

    Crucial points!

    First of all, please allow me to quote a line, which is something that Kate McCann says in her book…Madeliene.

    “EXACTLY WHERE THEY WERE STANDING, IS NOT CRUCIAL!”

    What a stupid thing to say.
    A little girl is still missing….presumed dead.
    Of course it is crucial, everything about this is crucial, especially if they really want to see Maddie alive again. If she don’t know that, then she cant be a very good mother.
    Wouldn’t it be crucial to get her Daughter Maddie back?.

    I have been scrutinising the so called “Tapas Nine”

    Gerry…
    why would it be important to have a hair cut, and go for a jog, the very day after his daughter goes missing…surely compared to the latter, a hair cut and a jog would be trivial. Plus if not before the fact, surely now after the fact the hairdresser would know if he cut his hair or not…….he must have read all about it by now!.

    My point, why not go and look for Maddie instead?.
    And who would give a damn about their looks or fitness regime, if one’s daughter had only gone missing the night before.
    What doting Father would ever get these kind of priorities wrong?.

    Kate…
    Why not much emotion?.
    Haven’t seen many believable tears!, every mother that I know, wouldn’t be able to stop.
    They would be beside themselves…horrified.

    Why would a child be crying for 18 hours a day…bit excessive wouldn’t you say, unless the child was a teething baby, was Maddie still teething at 4?.

    Dr David Payne…(Egg-Head!!!!!!!)
    A Surgeon would know how to dismember a body!.
    How does he know for certain, that “THEY DIDN’T DO IT!”?.

    Didn’t do what?…….what is this “IT”?.
    What is he alluding to?.
    Is this just a bad choice of words?.

    He also is reported to have said
    “ONE OF OUR PARTY, SAW MADDIE BEING ABDUCTED!”
    How would that party member just had assumed right then that an abduction was in progress?.
    And if that is the case, fearing for the child’s safety, why didn’t that person intervene, thus stopping any abduction from taking place?.
    Most people I know, would have done just that, especially where a child is concerned!.
    That is normal, human nature!.
    And is this saying that that person, ignored this so called incident and walked away?
    That is weird.

    Was this child crying whilst being carried?.

    The word abduction was used, so wouldn’t one assume that a crime was being carried out?, so thinking this, wouldn‘t any right minded person raise the alarm?.
    No mother especially, would just walk away, no matter if the child was one of their’s or not.

    Even as a concerned bystander, wouldn’t you question that right away, especially if you knew it to be a child?.

    Why didn’t Kate use a baby monitor?.
    Fiona Payne used one.
    As Friends, you would have thought they would have all followed suite!.

    Dianne Webster. 1-9=8.
    Apparently she stayed at the Tapas Bar, whilst everyone else, ran back to the compartment!.
    Would everyone, mean……the other 8!?.
    If this is so,
    Would Jane Tanner be one of the 8.?.

    Didn’t she dine with them all?.
    If this is so, how could she had seen the abductor, if she was with everyone else?,
    and if that was the case, then every one else would have seen him, or her, surely.

    8 against one lone abductor…there would be no contest.

    So, did she leave the table, witness the abduction, then go back, without saying anything, then run back to the apartment with everyone else?.
    And only then, say something!!.

    She described an Egg-head shaped person, in the dark…Murat’s head is not Egg-Shaped,
    But David Payne’s head looks slightly that way?….see photo!!!.

    Christ, she must have had a good look to be able to tell this, from 5 meters away, in the dark, perhaps long enough to even be able to save Maddie from being carried away, or at least raise the alarm, and if she was that close, she would probably have been able to see the front of the mans face,
    but oops!!!!!,
    didn’t she say she saw him from the back?.

    Dr Russell O’Brien..
    Why would he lie, about asking the house keeping, to change the bed linen!!!?.
    One faction is lying here.
    If this is a conspiracy, exactly what would be O’Brien’s part be in this?.

    Dr Mathew Oldfield…
    He apparently checked on the McCann children 9.30pm, but he didn’t look to see if Maddie was in bed.
    If he didn’t see Maddie, how could he have been the last person to check on Maddie,

    He didn’t see her!!!!.

    She had been crying for a long time, would she have suddenly stopped conveniently at that time, and if she was crying, surely he would have noticed her then, then presumably gone back and told the parents that Maddie was crying…..again!.

    Perhaps, Maddie wasn’t there at 9.30pm!.
    Perhaps she was gone, before 9.30pm!

    What time did Jane Tanner say that she saw Maddie’s abductor!!!!!!!?

    I am sure it was later then 9.30pm, (unless I have read something wrong!)

    I have scrutinised the Patio doors part, which I am sure you all have.
    Why would they change their story, from going in through the front doors, and then say they went through the Patio doors?.
    Were they drunk!, blind!, how could they not know.?
    They are 2 different entrances aren’t they?, I presume one at the front, ie…front door, and presumably the patio doors would be at ……the back.

    The doors, only lock from the inside.
    Does this mean that these so called responsible people, kept these doors open all day long?. With all of their things, and precious children inside, each time they went out and ate at the Tapas Bar?.

    Surely that is a crime in itself alone!.

    I agree, this makes no sense at all!.
    Does any of it!?.

    Maddie’s last photo.
    How can they prove that this picture was indeed taken on the 3rd of May.?.
    Is there a date stamped on it?/

    It is said, that when Kate looked, she didn’t notice (see) Maddie with Ella.
    And if not, why didn’t she look for her right then.
    Was she not concerned right then?.

    I have read enough today, starting to get tired.

    It still stinks to high heaven.

    So far my summation tells me. (but I will be happy to be wrong!)
    Maddie was gone before the 3rd of May.
    And if that is so, and she wasn’t seen in her bed……where was she really?.

    What is the real honest truth of this terrible event?.

    One last suggestion.
    Perhaps that sighting of a child being carried was on one of the nights before!.
    And all they have done, is brought this abduction story, or lie to the 3rd of May, for some kind of convenience, and they knowingly used this to point the finger at Robert Murat,
    Whom I believe is totally innocent.
    Perhaps they knew he would be in the right place, at the right time, for their concocted web of lies to work?.

    In other words….he was set up to take the fall!.

    Disgusting!!!!!.

    Christ, if you cant trust a Doctor, (especially all those mentioned!) whom can you trust?.
    And we put our lives into these peoples hands, every single day!.

    The quest for Maddie continues!!!!.

    Take care
    Roy Exeter.

  85. 85
    Liz Y Says:

    Sophie, I have followed your advice, and read about the heart-breaking and absolutely horrific, but, sadly, not surprising tale of Holly Greig. I have long suspected paedophilia is at the centre of the disappearance of Madeleine. It explains, somewhat, the level of protection the McCanns command. We really don’t know the half. However, I would probably not have entertained the suggestion, had it not been for the statements of the Gaspars who, to my mind, had no reason to lie, and the total lack of action from the Compo-savvy Payne and Gerry, not a single word from him and his wife via her book. I have tried all the options mentally, but cannot, for the life of me, think of another scenario that answers more of the mysteries, than any other.

    Roy, I’d love to believe Madeleine is safe and well, and she isn’t any danger, but Madeleine is dead, and has been for just over 4 years, I don’t know the date, I don’t know the method, but I do know she’s dead, and I know her beloved parents (who would rather pay the mortgage, trips, top lawyers, PR’s and Spokesmen etc), also know she’s dead. They aren’t bothered about finding

  86. 86
    Dawn Says:

    Hi Post 78 and post 79, ‘Sophie’ and ‘I don’t believe it’. Thanks for the info on Hollie Grieg, and Paulo Reiss es article pages. They are both soo full of information. It just makes Madeleines case even more weird.
    I appreciate you folks pointing me in the direction of more to read as I have only been contributing to this site for about a week.
    Blessings,

    Dawn

  87. 87
    Dawn Says:

    Hi,

    Having read about Hollie and also much more about Madeleine…..the one question that haunts me now is….are the twins in any danger…and the other children on holiday with the group too?

  88. 88
    sophie Says:

    Liz Y:
    “It explains, somewhat, the level of protection the McCanns command. ”

    Yes it certainly does. Two doctors with a group of friends left their kids, all below the age of 3, and went out night after night ina foreign country. They said they were well within view of the apartment block, yet it was discovered that on 2 nights they went to a different venue much further away. They left the door of their apartment opened. Their kid goes missing. The parents are beyond reproach and are projected by the media as being faultless. The media bias was absolutely bizarre to say the least. Celebrities, Media personalities, the Prime Minister, The Royal Family, big business men all threw their support behind the McCanns. They even secured a meeting with the POPE ( remember the catholic church scandals). As far as the Media and everyone else on the McCann’s bandwagon: the McCanns were absolved of any wrong doing. & Do you know why?

    Here’s my take: The McCanns made a deal and this was their payoff – FAME and MONEY.
    Would the truth be known? YES. Sooner or later (and i hope it is sooner), the McCanns would become disillusioned or more demanding and the power that be will not be pleased.

  89. 89
    Dawn Says:

    Hi various posters, I am beginning to see references to the Royal Family…can someone please enlighten me? (I already have a few theories of my own regarding what really happened to Diana!

  90. 90
    sophie Says:

    Dawn:

    Reference The Telegraph 26th May 2007:

    “… Prince Charles and the Duchess of Cornwall also expressed their support for the McCanns. In a statement from Clarence House, the couple said they had been following the case “closely and with deep concern.”

    “….Clarence Mitchell, a spokesman for the family, said: “I can confirm that telephone conversations have taken place between Gerry McCann and Chancellor Gordon Brown. During them, Mr Brown offered both Gerry and Kate his full support ”
    “The future Prime Minister personally spoke to Gerry McCann several times in recent days”

  91. 91
    Liz Y Says:

    Sophie, I agree that the McCanns, (such is their arrogance and petulance), will begin to piss off the whole estabishment in time, if not already. They must be up to their necks in some kind of illicit filth, and able to name names, to have made it thus far. They will, though, sign their own death warrants, because they’re far too pushy, (Gerry is a petty, beligerent, self-centered upstart) and some higher-ups don’t like being pushed too much. They will fall by their own hand, and I personally, can’t wait.
    Roy, As for Jane Tanner, she says she passed Gerry and Jeremy Wilkins, so she knows Gerry has either checked the kids or is just going to. Put yourself in her place, you walk past two people who didn’t see you, then you see a man carrying a child in a blanket (you still have no suspicions), in poor visibility, (bearing in mind you’re going to check your kids). Imagine, nothing on your mind, enjoying your holiday what, WHAT would follow. Would you be able to describe an abdutor who, had beige linen trousers, classic shoes, hair down his neck, AND see that he has child in a blanket across his arms. with the same pyjamas as Madeleine happened to be wearing? Or would it just be a passing glance, the kind you do every day, could you describe the woman who had just walked past you in the street, in such detail? Of course you couldn’t, because the information is not being registered by the brain, it’s not going in, it’s peripheral and unimportant and so, she lied, and a child was dead. Filth!

  92. 92
    Liz Y Says:

    Sophie, You’re absolutely spot on. The MCanns will want more and more, they’re blinded by power and addicted to the attention they are getting, but, one day, they’ll go too far, they’ll expect too much, and it will all come crashing down around them, as you say, sooner rather than later.
    I cannot comprehend the fact that two reasonably learned people, can come up with such puerile answers and explanations, and really believe we’ll accept it, he’s becoming and more like his MP mentors everyday. When Kate appears now she’s got that pained, suffering face on, nothing like the smiley one early on in Madeleine’s disappearance, and Gerry, Ah… Gerry, he’s having a ball, thoroughly enjoying himself, playing to the people. He’s a natural show-off, and he won’t be wrong in anything. Not even, (if their story is true, but it isn’t) being sorry for leaving the kids on their own, but only sorry that he was not there at the exact time that she was taken….WHAT. There is something radically wrong with this couple, they’ve no emotional capacity whatsoever, and no real knowledge of how to treat children. They parked their kids off at every opportunity, didn’t seem to understand how a family holiday works. Too self-centred in the extreme, not at all interested in the kids wellbeing or enjoyment. I have to say I have never come across their type in all my life. Most people you can work out, this pair I cant at all. Selfish, egocentric, petulant, liars.
    Catholic……My arse!

  93. 93
    Liz Y Says:

    Sorry for the double posting, I thought something had gone wrong with the first. I promise not to make another tonight, well perhaps just a little one!

  94. 94
    Roy Exeter Says:

    hi everyone.
    yes i am with all you.
    there are so many unanswered questions…questions that need to be answered, properly, and at the highest of levels.

    here is a thought

    i wonder if the McCann family, or the rest of the tapas group read this site.
    and if they are, and sometimes do….why cant they break their silence and talk to us on here.
    we’re not monsters, we only seek the truth.

    i would hazard a guess, that they do…they must know about these maddie sites, so i would say quite defanately they do…yet they stay quiet.

    they probably hate what i had to say.
    they probably hate us all.
    between you and me, this is one of the reason why i said all the things i said.
    yes, it was slightly imflamatory,purposely designed, to bring them out of the woodwork, from behind that book of hers. as they say, if you cant bring mamma to the mountain, lets bring the mountain to mamma.
    ever since i started posting here, its been hard to sleep.
    all i do is keep thinking…looking at the words, or phrases used.
    then i came up with my idea.
    i wanted to prompt a response…and the best way to find out as much as we can, is to actually talk to the people involved…ie, the McCann family.

    so come on, we are here, we want to help.
    you cant hide behind a book, then sweep it under the carpet.
    nothing you say adds up.
    too many contradictions!.
    it isn’t over, by a long chalk, and i reckon that eventuallly the real truth will come out, and you are going to have to face up to this all over again.

    going by all the things i have read, which are of course the same things that the more educated, switched on detectives can read…i can see this whole sorry can of worms being opened up again.
    and at the moment, the only monsters that i can see, are the McCann parents, and conspiritory tapas 9.
    it is up too you.

    thanks everyone.
    keep it going…you are doing great.

    the quest for maddie’s truth continues!

    take care
    Roy Exeter

    believe it or not you 9, us the Maddie Million plus (MM+…our name! why cant we have a fancy name too?)just want to help.
    and if you are innocent, as you say…fine,lets prove it.
    believe it or not, the MM+ could be the best friends you’ve (the McCann’s) have got.

    if maddie is not dead, then why are you so quiet, accept in your book kate

    Talk to us, perhaps we can come up with a suggestion, or an idea, that you havent thought about.
    it could only take one trivial clue, and if maddie is still alive….she could be back with you.

    accept for the glitzy publication of the “madeliene” novel, oops, i mean book, i havent seen, nor heard of anything else for ages

  95. 95
    Roy Exeter Says:

    hi everyone.
    yes i am with all you.
    there are so many unanswered questions…questions that need to be answered, properly, and at the highest of levels.

    here is a thought

    i wonder if the McCann family, or the rest of the tapas group read this site.
    and if they are, and sometimes do….why cant they break their silence and talk to us on here.
    we’re not monsters, we only seek the truth.

    i would hazard a guess, that they do…they must know about these maddie sites, so i would say quite defanately they do…yet they stay quiet.

    they probably hate what i had to say.
    they probably hate us all.
    between you and me, this is one of the reason why i said all the things i said.
    yes, it was slightly imflamatory,purposely designed, to bring them out of the woodwork, from behind that book of hers. as they say, if you cant bring mamma to the mountain, lets bring the mountain to mamma.
    ever since i started posting here, its been hard to sleep.
    all i do is keep thinking…looking at the words, or phrases used.
    then i came up with my idea.
    i wanted to prompt a response…and the best way to find out as much as we can, is to actually talk to the people involved…ie, the McCann family.

    so come on, we are here, we want to help.
    you cant hide behind a book, then sweep it under the carpet.
    nothing you say adds up.
    too many contradictions!.
    it isn’t over, by a long chalk, and i reckon that eventuallly the real truth will come out, and you are going to have to face up to this all over again.

    going by all the things i have read, which are of course the same things that the more educated, switched on detectives can read…i can see this whole sorry can of worms being opened up again.
    and at the moment, the only monsters that i can see, are the McCann parents, and conspiritory tapas 9.
    it is up too you

    believe it or not you 9, we the Maddie Million plus (MM+…our name! why cant we have a fancy name too?)just want to help.
    and if you are innocent, as you say…fine,lets prove it.
    believe it or not, the MM+ could be the best friends you’ve (the McCann’s) have got.

    if maddie is not dead, then why are you so quiet, accept in your book kate

    Talk to us, perhaps we can come up with a suggestion, or an idea, that you havent thought about.
    it could only take one trivial clue, and if maddie is still alive….she could be back with you.

    accept for the glitzy publication of the “madeliene” novel, oops, i mean book, i havent seen, nor heard of anything else for ages.
    so come on….we dont bite.
    take care
    Roy Exeter

  96. 96
    Liz Y Says:

    Roy, The McCanns don’t just hate us, they’re terrified of us. Most people, in the upper echelons, would ride the storm. Look at all the politicians you can think of, every one of them lies through their teeth, then they sit tight knowing that Joe Public wll accept it and move on. The difference with the McCanns lies, is they have sat tight for 4 years, and we’re not going away. This is a lifetime thing if necessary, but someone will crack, maybe a deathbed confession to avoid eternal damnation. I am not at all religious, but, they are, especially Kate. From hell on earth to eternal damnation, not a easy choice

  97. 97
    Roy Exeter Says:

    Liz,
    i whole heartedly agree with you.

    they once refered to us as evil…i take umbridge to that.
    that is an insult, just like they have been insulting out intelligence, since this whole sorry debackle began…4 years ago.

    do the McCann’s really think that we do this for the good of our health?. and it is nothing more then some inter-net hobby of ours.it would be nice, not having to have a site like this, and if strange things hadn’t occured concerning a little girl called madeliene, this would be so….
    but it isn’t.

    from what i have read, every one of you have valid points, and between the line observations.
    some of what i understand does come from between the lines.
    well, if they wont tell us the truth, how else are we joe public’s suppose to think?.

    surely it could help their case, if they started talking to us joe public’s.

    i bet, if it was someone else in the frame,(another family!) i am sure, being joe public’s themselves, they would be just as concerned as us, as they have familys too, and maddie would still be a little girl doing what children do best, playing and growing up. and then they the McCann’s would be classed as evil, just like we are, by them.

    wouldn’t kate, and gerry,as parents be just as confused and outraged?.
    and smelling a fish themselves, be asking the same questions as us?.

    is it evil, to want to get to the truth?.
    i would say, it was healthy.

    bottom line is folks…….WE CARE!!!!, dont we!?.

    do they really think we like doing this?.
    if maddie had never disapeared, this site wouldn’t need to be here.

    you are right…one day, someone will crack…not everyone can take the same preshore.
    one of them will probably burst…not every one is as strong at keeping secrets, and i wouldn’t mind betting, that this must be tearing some of them apart.

    they cant keep it up forever.
    and to keep this up….forever, it must be.
    at the moment, yes, its working, but forever is a long time, anything can happen.

    perhaps it might just be…..guilt.
    especially, perhaps,knowing they could have prevented it from happening.

    if we are so evil….are we that far from the truth?.

    what happens if they fall out with each other over something, would they still have the same forever commitment?.

    people change!!.

    i will if i have to, (especially now i’ve found you good people)but i dont want to be still doing this same thing in say….10 years time…i would like to think it is solved by then.
    and perhaps we could use this forum, by talking about nice things instead.

    i’ll be here, as long as it takes, if i can live that long.

    we must’nt give up.

    i know this seems boring…but once again Kate, Gerry, tapas members!!!, we only want to help, and if someone knows something that is not yet known….
    my advice…go to the police, anononimous if you have to…
    or just talk too us.

    one of you knows something…
    something defanately untoward happened to Maddie, i just know it in my bones.

    but what!?.

    we will find out.

    the quest for maddie continues.

    take care
    Roy Exeter.

    Site Admin: Roy, you make some great points in your postings. I noted in this post you said that “we care”. You’re absolutely right. It’s almost like an instinctive reaction that good-minded people want to find out what really happened to Madeleine. As the prospects for abduction have been explored exhaustively, it was inevitable that people would turn to the parents and question their alibis along with those of their friends. As those alibis are conflicting and seem to change with the passage of time, it is astonishing why the McCanns still have this hate-mentality towards anyone who challenges their mantric, “Madeleine was abducted”.

    If nobody within the respective families has got the testicular fortitude to ask the same difficult questions to Kate and Gerry then there seems to be little prospect of a solution to this mystery coming from within.

    Sure, someone or all of them know what really happened, but for some strange reason, the veil of protection seems impregnable. One has only to look at the Hollie Greig case to see how corrupt government ministers and the judiciary are allowing paedophiles to walk free.

    From four years of intelligence gathering at Truth for Madeleine, our conclusion is that this is another sickening case about paedophilia. The Portuguese police files have two Doctor witnesses and friends of the McCanns stating their concerns to British Police only 13 days after Madeleine was reported missing. The same British Police held on to this information for almost six months before passing it on to Portuguese investigators. Why?

    Leicestershire Police won’t answer any Freedom of Information requests citing either National Security or that the Madeleine disappearance is an ongoing investigation. Now if they really are involved in a heavyweight investigation then all well and good. One would expect a degree of secrecy under those circumstances. However, the interview technique by Leicestershire Police on the Tapas 7 leaves a lot to be desired. Unless the rogatory interviews in the public domain are fakes, then the real Keystone Cops seem to be those based in Leicester rather than the Algarve.

    Are the British Police letting the McCanns continue as they are to build an even larger case against them? Are they being monitored to see if they reveal where Madeleine is hidden? These scenarios would be good if true but sadly there have been too many false dawns in the McCann case and Operation Task does not instil one with a confidence that the case is being properly investigated behind the scenes.

    Dr Kelly was murdered and that was effectively covered up by the strong Freemasonic network in the UK. Even Norman Baker’s comprehensive book “The Strange Death of Dr David Kelly” serves to cancel out the work of the Freemasons in the Kelly murder. The same thing has happened with Madeleine’s disappearance when the Freemasonic Big-Guns at Kingsley Napley got involved.

    Four years on it is sad and amazing that nobody has ratted out the real perpetrators.

  98. 98
    Roy Exeter Says:

    i have just been watching the video that Goncalo Amaral helped to make.
    ie the video the McCann’s didn’t want the uk people to see.
    it took me a while to get through it, because i had to keep pausing, to read the subtitles.
    Not being that well travelled, i do not understand Portugese.

    So going by this, if you dont mind i would just like to raise a few things, that to my mind, do not add up.

    1…why are certain people afraid to speak about it, in particular Martin Smith?.
    has he been threatened in some way?, if so, by whom?, does he know something that could be damming?. and if so, isn’t there still such a thing as…..Police protection?.
    Surely if he knows something, and the McCann’s are innocent of any wrong doing, then you would have thought that they would be the first to welcome this man’s input!.

    2…why does Kate fail to answer quite a few of the questions asked by the PJJ…48 i believe?.

    3…why did Gerry blow up in the interview?.
    could this be some form of belayed guilt rising up from within?
    obviously, he wasn’t expecting that particular question to be brought up.
    could it have been, he was so use to their own concocted account, that he didn’t have time to react?.

    4…why would there be fluid traces of some sort in a hire vehicle, some 23 days after Maddie was supposed to have been abducted?.
    could this have been where Maddies dead body had been hidden?.

    those 2 dogs, Eddie and Keeler!!, tell me the whole sorry story in a nutshell.

    trained sniffer dogs…never failed in 200 investigations, so why would they start failing now?.
    perhaps one might have a bad day….but both of them!!!!, in their own trained specific fields.
    ie, cadavor, and blood fluids respectively!!.

    to me, Amarals report, is damming, and completly destroys the abduction theory, which now suggests a lot of people were in on it, a lot of people with practised accounts, of what to say…in other words….a bloody great pack of lies.

    As much as i would love to believe the McCann’s are innocent, the dogs tell me different.

    it pains me to say, from this moment on, until it has been proven otherwise.
    MADDIE IS DEAD, and probably has been ever since….or, perhaps before that.
    i know it, you know it, but more importantly, the McCann’s, and the Tapas crew, have always known it…..haven’t they?.

    I agree with Amaral (this man isn’t stupid!)
    One day, the truth will come out, and he will be vindicated.
    perhaps then, they will all be wishing that they had listened to him to start with?.

    If only all detectives were like him!.

    the quest for Maddie’s justice, goes on.

    thankyou
    take care
    Roy Exeter

  99. 99
    Roy Exeter Says:

    hi everyone.
    question….where is everyone?.
    its been almost a week since i posted my last, which was the last one on here.
    hope no one has given up on our little girl.

    but to be fair, it cant be easy to have anything to write.
    i havent seen anything in the media for ages, concerning our little maddie.
    i suppose they are just waiting for things to die away, so it can be forgotten about, and hope it all goes away….which would be so convenient….would’nt.
    they would like that!.

    but if they think this will keep me quiet, then i make no appologies, for they just dont know me.
    i dont shut up that easy, especially when i can see all the blatent outstanding wrongs, that have yet to be adressed, and put right.
    does maddie not matter any more.
    i suppose the McCanns with their other children, she is not so important anymore, even though the new book is making money hand over fist for them, at maddie’s expense.
    well….as long as they’re enjoying their nice holidays….thats all that counts…..right!!!?.

    wrong!!!!!!!…
    yes,this is so effing wrong (pardon my bad language)
    i am so frustrated, arn’t you too?…

    i hate loose ends, especially where obviouse justice has not seen to have been served.
    when is someone going to pick up the ball again, and start running again for this little girls justice?. or am i just pissing into the wind!?.

    surely that is not it for maddie!……is it?….i hope not.
    am i wasting my time here.
    i’m just a humble poorly paid man…perhaps when i have my book published, i will use some of my millions to do something for maddie, try an encourage the authorities, (get Amaral back!!) to start searching again….the clues are still all there, i’m sure. i am not going to stay quiet, even if everyone else in the world does.

    dont you find this silence odd?.
    i mean what does this say about certain members of the so called human race.

    its frightening….isn’t it!?.
    what if it was their kids!!, would they be as silent then?.
    i dispair. i feel so useless, i want to cry out and do something, but that is all i am in this case, utterly useless.

    perhaps i am wrong, and i’m happy to be, but it does seem this whole sorry affair has been literally swept under the carpet!!!!!.
    yeah….anything for conveiniance……right!!!?.

    i hope this is not going to suddenly die a death.

    do you feel my anguish too?.

    the quest for maddie, must never be allowed to end, untill it is solved.

    thankyou
    take care
    Roy Exeter

  100. 100
    Liz Y Says:

    Roy, First you say ‘Where is everyone’& ‘It’s been almost a week’ we are here, nobody is going away, some of us are working, going on holidays, bringing up families and sorting out school runs packed lunches, and all that other stuff. Roy, if you really think this has been swept under the carpet after ‘nearly’ a week’s silence, that’s a bit of an insult to everyone who enables us to have an opinion here. Your comment ‘I hope it’s not going to go away’ is disrespectful to the many people who have spent years trying to get justice, and a decent burial for this little girl. If you don’t hear from these people for a few days, they are there under the surface. It hasn’t been swept under the carpet, people are working behind the scenes, sometimes long after we’ve gone to bed. You really don’t have to keep saying that your a mere man, or a humble poorly paid man or whatever, nobody gives a shit, all we come on here for is Madeleine, it’s not about financial status, or who can write the longest posts etc, its just about, and for, Madeleine.

  101. 101
    Dawn Says:

    Thank you Liz Y…I’m sure you speak for all those concerned about the fate of Madeleine.

    Being the new kid on the block myself Roy, I personally have spent time READING UP about this rather than writing long missives…And trying to absorb the finer details.
    The loudest drum isn’t always the most effective….

    Truth will out…it always does…all in GOD’s time

  102. 102
    Roy Exeter Says:

    liz

    i am sorry, i dont wish to offend anyone, least of all you guys.
    i have only been on here for a couple of weeks or so…just trying to fit in.
    i just get carried away, purely with frustration,
    but i am not the only person on here that writes long winded posts.
    weather they are long, or short, all of them are very interesting.

    but i think you have miss understood me liz,
    i wasn’t having go at any of you…
    my bitching is solely aimed at the police,and any relevant authority that just could be reading this site, and i am betting, they must do, just like we do.
    i bet even the McCanns read this to.
    i am only trying to help.

    i dont give a shit about myself…..
    all i care about is maddie, and getting to the truth.

    if you rather i stayed away…fine, i will.

    perhaps i am just trying to tempt the authorities out,
    and get them back to work.
    thankyou
    take care
    Roy Exeter

  103. 103
    Roy Exeter Says:

    hi dawn, thanks for that.
    i have read every single word, all over this site, seen every picture, every video, read every fact, every clue, every flawed account, sometimes over and over again.
    i have read every thing that you guys have written, sometime over and over again also.
    for my part,i have tried to be fair,i tried to put myself on the fence.
    i have cross referenced stuff, built a puzzle, a time line, its on paper right in front of me and nowhere in any of it, does any of it add up, accept for what you guys write, and that i agree with whole heatedly.
    there is nothing new, or more for me to read, only what you guys continue to write, which i look forward to reading every day.
    well done, and keep up the good work, especially you mr sleuth.
    thankyou
    take care
    Roy Exeter.

  104. 104
    Dawn Says:

    Hi Roy, Now start reading everything else out there that is not on this site too…..it clarifies the inconsistentcies….and that about Hollie Gregg too…that should fill your time a bit…. You clearly have more time than the rest of us. It does not mean that we care about the fate of Madeleine any less….but we have other committments too…including the living (our family circle and friends) and looking out for them and keeping them safe. (an aside…more kids are abused from folk within the home than out of it….protecting our own kids is no mean feet.) Justice for Madeleine is part of that life-choice of care.

  105. 105
    Roy Exeter Says:

    hi dawn
    with respect,you dont seem to understand me….
    i didn’t mean you, or any of the other posters on here.
    sorry if i didn’t make myself clear, the first time.
    take care
    Roy Exeter

  106. 106
    Liz Y Says:

    Hi Roy, Please don’t misunderstand, but, maybe you should stop posting on this thread for a while, and get around a bit, visit different sites, (there are many), find out more information with which you can converse with lots of others. Getting upset because nobody has answered YOUR post suggests to me that you have a lot of time on your hands, others don’t, that doesn’t mean everyone has just given up. That is being a little presumptuous, there is no need to rally the troops, they’re here all the time, and have been for years before you or I came along. This isn’t about you or me, it is about Madeleine, always has been, always will be. It’s really not about your anguish or frustration, and it’s not really something to look forward to, we do it because we care. Getting upset about this will help no-one, especially you. Try to use less I’s, stop saying sorry and try not to be so intense. I wish you well.

  107. 107
    Beverly Says:

    I would say to Roy – however passionate you are, Roy, it needs time. We have to be patient and, as Dawn and Liz both say, we are all here! We haven’t gone away, and we all want one thing, which is truth, justice for this child. More will emerge and we have to wait for that as it comes. All best wishes.

  108. 108
    Dawn Says:

    Thanks Liz Y, Thanks Beverly, I was trying to say (to Roy) what you two have said much better… You are both (and others) very knowledgable and all mom’s are concerned. The paedophilia train of thought had rung in my head at the time….and as more unravels, it is (sadly) likely the fate of Madeleine. It seems clear she died at that time…and in many ways that will be a mixed blessing…so she does not go through what other kids go through daily (the ones we don’t hear about). Being fairly new to computers and only recently on this site I have come to realise that paedophilia is widespread…I think I read somewhere that one child in 4 is/has been abused over the last numerous generations…most of those within the home…or by people known to the family. It was just as prevelant in Victorian times, and before, as it is today. Thanks to ‘homever’ who set this site up in the beginning as more folk will find it over time…I’m sure.

  109. 109
    Beverly Says:

    Hello Dawn; possible and alleged paedophile links within the Tapas 9 group does not seem to have been taken up by police in this country? There are copies of the Gaspar statements to the police but – as someone suggested – there may be an injunction against coverage. Certainly I have never seen the Gaspar statements reported or discussed in the media other than on the net.

    Whatever the truth of this, I believe there were immense emotional pressures in that family of one kind or another. I think KM lost it – before 3 May, and what we then saw on that date was pre-arranged. The alleged cry “They’ve taken her” can only point to an arrangement in my view – no mother under the trauma of suddenly finding a child missing at night would find those words. It would be a terrified: “I can’t find her .. I can’t find her .. she’s not here”. Dr. Amaral believes that a terrible accident took place and that’s my sense. But I also hope that the Gaspar statements are fully included in the Met review. If not, why not!

  110. 110
    glitter brain Says:

    This is about the child safety gate that was inplace at top of the stairs at the veranda before you get to the patio doors…There is no mention of it being opened or shut …or if anybody used it to get into the apartment..On the fateful night did Mathew Oldfield open it to gain entry to the patio doors?…Did Kate open it to gain entry to the patio doors …if it was left open..then another mistake by the Mccanns

  111. 111
    Dawn Says:

    Hello Beverly, Thanks for that…and thanks for your reply….especially regarding Kates comments which were what triggered my unease back at the time. I also felt at that time that Madeleine was dead before 3rd. My comments about was Madeleine really at the kids group on the 3rd. or even the 2nd. (Having worked, decades ago, with little ones, it is easy to miss the eye that was talked about…as there was one child there with one eye of blue and one of brown…equally unusual I think, and most of us never noticed it.)
    Yes, I can see the emotional pressures in that family, and had spotted that from the T.V. at that time. I think a previous poster said she felt that Kate will crack sooner or later. Good point. Thanks.

  112. 112
    Beverly Says:

    Thankyou Dawn; interesting that we have come to similar thoughts.

    Today’s D. Express in the UK has an article following I think a press conference at the House of Commons yesterday – where KM is interviewed and is not at all pleased with PJ. She praises the trauma counsellor sent over, but my understanding was that a social worker sent over almost immediately was allegedly given short shrift. More blame on the PJ. And also “And they [parents] should be spared the additional pain of financial and legal beauracracy.” Given the apparent interventions and support from Gordon Brown, Tony and Cherie Blair and so many others, that is an extraordinary statement. She is also quoted as saying: “If your house is burgled, you are automatically offered victim support with emotional, practical and legal assistance. If your child goes missing, you may get nothing. This parliamentary inquiry has the potential to change that .. we have had to fight and really fight to get the help that Madeleine needs most and can make a difference.”

  113. 113
    Dawn Says:

    Hi Beverly, Thanks….I have not seen the Daily Express….I’ll try and access it on-line in the morning (long day – pretty bushed!) Is there a difference between the Social Worker (Yvonne is it?) who happened to be staying in Praia at the time and the one that KM is referring to as “the trauma counsellor sent over”?. Perhaps ?Yvonne? (the one who was on holiday there and offered her help) was too close…saw too much…knew too much, assessed the family/group dynamics too well? As I was driving today I found myself pondering just how many in the group were involved in paedophilia…surely not just one to have covered up sooo much! Also that Yvonne seemed to know ‘something’ about David Payne…having stated that he ‘seemed familiar to her’. Anyways, I’ll try and get the D. Express on line now.

  114. 114
    Dawn Says:

    Hi folks…just curious….where is this site run from as the time shown on my postings does not make much sense to me. Is it Atlantic time Canada?

    Reply: The site is on US Eastern Time

  115. 115
    Sophie Says:

    If you leave your front door unlocked and your valuables unsecured and your home was burglarized, then the insurance companies do hesitate aLOT when it comes to pay outs. Similarly if the Mccanns could not be bothered about the security of their kids by leaving their door unlocked, by not hiring a baby sitter and by leaving three innocent,precious babies alone in an apartment in a foreign country, then why should they be given any financial assistance. This sense of entitlement the Mccanns seems to possess is a classic symptom of Narcissism.They have been given so much publicity and protection and portrayed as the victims, when the true victim has been reduced to a money making scam.
    The Mccanns could not even be bothered to post an uptodate photo of Maddie at the time of her disappearance or alleged abduction citing that it was the only pic which shows her eyes feature best. My take on the photo was that it was used to generate sympathy from the general public.
    Selfish to the core- the Mccanns and it fills me with disgust to see the level of support they have received. This entire case boils down to child neglect and not a mention or outrage was was made of this in any of the media.
    What irks me is the sheer audacity by which the Mccanns attempted and succeeded in controlling their image as the victims in this crime with the help of their so called friends. It astounds me to this day that they were allowed to leave Portugal even though they refused to co-operate with the PJ in answering questions deemed pertinent to the case.

    The most important question i feel which holds the key to unlocking this mystery is: What exactly did kate meant by “they have taken her, we have let her down” .
    Did Maddie die at the hands of one of the Mccanns rich and powerful friends who had the resources to quickly dispose of the body?
    Were the Tapas along with the Mccanns paid for their silence?
    Were the Mccanns promised money, protection and fame for their silence?
    Are the Mccanns part of a secret organisation that is involved in crimes of a sordid and sinister nature?
    It all begins to make sense when you look at the rich and powerful personalities supporting the Mccanns.

    I sat in my local Starbucks today and an article caught my attention in the newspapers that left me bawling my eyes outin the washroom. It was about the police in America exposing a group involved in trading pictures and videos of children and babies as YOUNG AS 1 YEAR OLD BEING RAPED AND SEXUALLY MOLESTED. 1 year old. THOSE WHO PERPETRATE CRIME ESPECIALLY AGAINST CHILDREN ARE NOT FIT TO BE CALLED HUMAN BEINGS.

  116. 116
    Liz Y Says:

    Sophie, Well done. An outstanding, upsetting, and sadly truthful post. For once I am speechless!!

  117. 117
    Taurus Says:

    Due to being there I can see many things then that others cannot. The stone step elevations for example, and how they are staged with each apartment are very, very dangerous for small children.

    A man seen in the afternoon at 4.30 p.m. is subversively opening a gate of 5B, or 5C. Five C is supposed to be empty. Why then did Warner not give this to Matt Oldfield? Why the smallest flat, and why did they not give it Kate and Gerry as it would have meant they were altogether.

    5H David Payne, Fiona, two girls, Diane above, 5G Mrs Penn, and family visiting.
    5D Jane Tanner, Russell O’Brien, two girls, 5C empty,
    5B, Matt and Rachel Oldfield, and one girl. Kate and Gerry and three children, two girls.

    Looking at it I would have asked Warner to put my family in 5C. Who then was in 5C, was it the man seen that afternoon of the 3rd coming out of the gate and closing it to make no sound at all?
    Was it someone going into 5B to see over the wall of 5A, or had he been there and ‘legged’ it over the wall of 5A which you can do. The issue is the man coming out of 5B-C as described by Mrs Penn’s relative who has a sound mind and has not taken alcohol, and it is daylight is a clear description of a man at that time acting with ‘intent’. What that intent was has not been disclosed. Who he was has not been disclosed.

    As for the man watching the upper tiers, it could be said due the Penn family, he was watching them above and this could have only been the man coming out the gate of 5B-C. I say that as the reconstruction shows him looking upwards, and he would not have to cross the road to do that. He could have done this by the reception of the Warner side better. But he had to be watching the party of people that week visiting Mrs Penn, as only they were in as a party and using the balcony during daylight hours.

    What he could see. He could see the end part of the balcony and then access the gates of 5C, and go over the wall to 5B or vice versa. If on that day he was in a flat he would not see they were above and being quiet on that afternoon, for he would be of course inside a flat – 5C or 5B.

    That is the crux of all this on that afternoon as a true expert witness with no conflict of interest, nor malady of light, or sight due to comfounding variables. The witness saw a man exactly where it was most advantageous to take a child in darkness and unseen. The gates presented a problem as they were not oiled and squeaked on closing. Someone did not want Mrs Penn to look over on the evening of the 3rd and see this man and what he might be doing.

    What bothers me is that the wall of the Warner complex division could be better accessed by two men vaulting over and it is a think Matt and Russell could do. It would save a lot more time to go over the wall and into the gates at that angle to 5D and 5B. Logically, it is the closest and most direct route and can be done. This would mean though all the gates would be open, or closed? Which?

    When Scotland Yard figure out who went in by the gates and not the front, and who the man was seen acting subversively that afternoon as I am sure they can easily then they may close this case successfully. Who was this man? That is what Kate should have demanded. But she did not.

  118. 118
    Beverly Says:

    Hello Taurus – I wonder if you could kindly clarify what you mean by “gates” – I don’t know if you mean actual gates (iron or wood), or patio doors? And where located in relation to the apartments?

    As for what Kate “should have demanded” – I’m sorry to say this but it wells up: what Kate “should have demanded” was that their party stayed close to their respective children every night!! The group of parents could have dined on the patio at 5A, with food from the Tapas bar, and as many bottles as they wanted. Then they would have been close to all the children. Or they could have arranged a baby sitter from Warner. But KM did not demand any of this. Why not?

  119. 119
    Taurus Says:

    The gates are the several gates on the poolside as those to enter by the steps of each apartment.

    The main thing is who was the man described who is not ever, even in the book stated as to who he was as a definate sighting by persons unconnected like the Smith family who saw a strange forensic act or one assumed to be. We can rule out the man carrying his child at 9.15- 9.20 as that is obviously the witness Stephen Carpenter and his child. It is that obvious that Gerry drinks coffee with this man as Jane says, and the she and he, and Gerry almost clash with the staff who are in the reception parked by those gates in the lane side. Really what has happened is Stephen and family depart with sleeping children to walk where Jane says she saw a man carrying a child, and of course that had to be this man due to correlations of testimony from all concerned. It makes this man the one they knew and would not see as suspicious. But I think Jane had to have seen him from her walk inside to the gated lane and not on the main concourse, for here she could see Gerry on this side of the pavement by the gate of 5B. Jane had to be going to check by the backway as if one has checked prior they are still there to relieve her and so the patio door are still open in this relay as common sense. ???????????????????

  120. 120
    Taurus Says:

    See the red coloured parts down to the discussion on Mrs Penn at the end, third one down.
    It clearly shows that above the McCann bedroom window which most holiday makers use for the children due to the noise of cars parking and people passing the roadside windows along that corridor is where we have to look.

    Here as it has a corridor that runs to the 5B and over is above the Penn apartments as did she not own the upper tier as her own bought first and second tier? 5G./http://textusa.blogspot.com/2010/11/praia-da-luz-why-have-you-forsaken.html

    Here if you look you can from this bedroom of 5G poolside see on the iron railings down to the gate of 5B. Therefore it was 5B and not 5C that the lady who works in Royal circles did see a man coming out in the afternoon at 4.30 p.pm. This and other gates are very rusty in the hinges and so they clank when shut. Well this one did or does. Of course I tried these gates myself as a concerned passer by some weeks later. Here is the only gate as entry gate directly in front of the stairs.

    Now. Did all those families change the rooms for children from poolside and quiet, or was it only the McCanns due to the television being on and used to watch football as stated? Was this a communal television room as Kate stated of watching the match that evening when Gerry was delayed, so in true form he had done just that.

    The time was due to his wanting to see the half time results and that is why he checked in my view, it would mean the television could be stolen from the apartment of course, but it would also mean the television crucially as a light with sound turned down was on so as to see SKY match as soon as you enter of course. Otherwise it would not make sense to say that Gerry was late as watching football. He had to be watching tv usually to make that statement, and the match so special.That means did all the men access this match on checking and if so of course Madeleine would simply wake up and go and see who was there, as she would hear voices of course, shoe sounds and car sounds, of course.

    Therefore the most available way with Mrs Penn above for any one to steal even a television would be over the wall to 5B and out gate 5B and out and down the lane as unseen. Yes?

  121. 121
    Elen Says:

    From one thing to another (completely)…How come the twins were fast asleep on Kate and Gerrys shoulder when they arrived in the UK getting off a flight, where there certainly must have been lots of noise both inside and outside the plane? It seems to me those twins never did anything but slept, all throughout everything that happened at all stages…either they must be the deepest sleeping kids ever in history, or they were sedated at all times. Just saying cos i have 4 kids myself and have traveled with them a lot throughout their childhood, and never ever did they sleep through getting on and off planes whilst carried. Apart from that, the plane engines does not switch off upon arrival, or has anybody else ever gotten off a plane that was totally quiet? On top, they are speaking with the press, making a statement outside the plane immediately upon arrival, and the kids look like two rag dolls on their shoulders… just saying…Something should seriously have been done to get those kids tested for sedatives.

    Site Admin: Your point is a good one. However, my own daughter has stayed awake for 9 hours in a flight only to fall asleep as we landed and then to be like a rag doll as you’re trying to get off the plane. But, it is a rare situation and a flight from Faro to East Midlands airport is probably under 2 hours on average. And, as you say, the noise on the ramp with the typical gusty conditions would make most children wake if only to be nosy because of the interesting things on the ground.

  122. 122
    sophie Says:

    If my suspicion is correct and the Mccanns along with their tapas accomplices are members of a sinister organisation then it all begins to make sense.
    This trip was not about a family vacation but some sort of induction or initiation for the Mccanns and their friends into that organisation, But something went awry with the plan which led to the disappearance of Maddie. I believe that Kate had no idea that Maddie was going to be taken or if she was dead or alive at the time of her disappearance. Hence her infamous outburst : “they’ve taken her we’ve let her down”. Even the Mccanns mood at the tapas bar that night according to media reports, was supposedly ebulient and showed no sign of guilt or remorse to loosing Maddie. So i can only surmise that they were unaware that Maddie was removed from the apartment.

    Now i can understand one or two of the Tapas members keeping silent about the incident but to persuade all of them would take a lot of effort unless they were simply following orders from someone at a very high level. If that person is so powerful to cause hurt to them or their family then they would keep silent on the matter. Where are the tapas members now. They seemed to have disappeared, nothing more has been heard about them. ODD don’t you think?

    I have also wondered about the night at the tapas bar, where they were said to have consumed huge quantities of alcohol on that fateful night. I was surprised that with so much alcohol in their system that they were able to think and act with such clarity or even run without a stumble or awake the next morning and able to go for a run. One would normally awake with a hangover or at least feel groggy. But not the Mccanns. Any thoughts on this?
    In addition to Holly Greig case please read about this brave and courageous individual _ drasius keyds.
    http://zyzik.wordpress.com/2009/10/20/drasius-kedys-letter-to-nobody/
    http://www.lithuaniatribune.com/2010/04/20/folk-hero-kedys-allegedly-found-dead/
    May he Rest in Peace

  123. 123
    sophie Says:

    If my suspicion is correct and the Mccanns along with their tapas accomplices are members of a sinister organisation then it all begins to make sense.
    This trip was not about a family vacation but some sort of induction or initiation for the Mccanns and their friends into that organisation, But something went awry with the plan which led to the disappearance of Maddie. I believe that Kate had no idea that Maddie was going to be taken or if she was dead or alive at the time of her disappearance. Hence her infamous outburst : “they’ve taken her we’ve let her down”. Even the Mccanns mood at the tapas bar that night according to media reports, was supposedly ebulient and showed no sign of guilt or remorse to loosing Maddie. So i can only surmise that they were unaware that Maddie was removed from the apartment.
    Now i can understand one or two of the Tapas members keeping silent about the incident but to persuade all of them would take a lot of effort unless they were simply following orders from someone at a very high level. If that person is so powerful to cause hurt to them or their family then they would keep silent on the matter. Where are the tapas members now. They seemed to have disappeared, nothing more has been heard about them. ODD don’t you think?
    I have also wondered about the night at the tapas bar, where they were said to have consumed huge quantities of alcohol on that fateful night. I was surprised that with so much alcohol in their system that they were able to think and act with such clarity or even run without a stumble or awake the next morning and able to go for a run. One would normally awake with a hangover or at least feel groggy. But not the Mccanns. Any thoughts on this?
    In addition to Holly Greig case please read about this brave and courageous individual _ drasius keyds.
    http://zyzik.wordpress.com/2009/10/20/drasius-kedys-letter-to-nobody/
    http://www.lithuaniatribune.com/2010/04/20/folk-hero-kedys-allegedly-found-dead/
    May he Rest in Peace

  124. 124
    Liz Y Says:

    Hi Sophie, A good post, it certainly offers answers to a lot of questions, particularly concerning Gerry, the higher-ups who, seeing his delusionary self importance, and dismal oratory and acting skills, had to shut him up – hence Clarence. This is extraordinary, and, more than disturbing. To warrant the amount of protection, being given the McCanns and their friends. (You’re right Sophie, they have disappeared), they must be involved with something big, something very serious, and there must be a lot of people, connected to them in any way, who are literally crapping themselves. I mean, are they still in their jobs? Particularly David Payne….. I forget in what field he specialises, if it’s anything to do with kids, surely they couldn’t afford to keep him on? Surely he must have been questioned about it? I wouldn’t let him near any child of mine or myself come to that. There are many people disgusted by all of those who left kids night, after night, who may well say, I’m not having anthing to do with him (or her) get me a decent doctor!! I would!!
    So, it wasn’t drug or arms smuggling, nor money-laundering, animal smuggling, child trafficking? hmmmm…. What, oh what, could have all these people changing their trousers?? What ‘thing’ is it that has enabled a group of people to commit a crime, and then to flaunt themselves with a level of arrogance (I have never come across before), with impugnity, and hob-nobbing with the elite.
    Yes paedophilia ticks all my boxes.

  125. 125
    sophie Says:

    Thank you Liz. I agree with you 100% about Clarence. He was sent in there to control the flow of information out of the Mccanns camp. I am very curious about their alcohol levels that night. According to the media reports, they had several drinks before going to the tapas bar. At the tapas bar that night they drunk almost 10 bottles of wine and none of them were reported to be tipsy or merry. Taurus you’ve been to the resort, how far is it from the tapas bar to the apartment? Are there many twists and turns in the pathway that leads to the apartment? My reason for going on about their alcohol consumption that night is because i believe that that too was exaggerated and misleading.
    Liz the following link will give you an insight as to how those in positions of power do everything to protect their kind :http://www.spectator.co.uk/essays/all/826056/the-establishment-paedophile-how-a-monster-hid-in-high-society.thtml

    P.S This article is EXTREMELY DISTURBING.

  126. 126
    Elen Says:

    I so agree with you Sophie…Thank you for putting into words my deepest thoughts about this whole case. Truth is always stranger then fiction and NOTHING is -out of boundaries- what comes to Madeleines disappearance. As absolutely nothing that the McCanns and their -friends- have said, done, acted or left out of all of the previous; -makes any sense (and there is evidently a lot of us trying to fit the puzzle together without being able to do so with any normal logic), then simply, there is no other way then to start looking at the whole thing from a totally new angle and perspective and -work on the, what would seem to be -improbable scenarios-, taken s.t.s directly from some thriller movie. Madeleines disappearance is just that, and so much more then that, it is a horror scenario without any apparent end and the only conclusion i can come to since quite some time ago, is the same as yours. There IS something to this whole case that does not add up no matter what way one turns it unless one starts to think in lines of something much “deeper” going on behind the scenes already long before Madeleine actually disappeared. The way that the McCanns have behaved since they became a public phenomenon are not actions that any -normal- parent or human being could possibly relate to (i certainly cannot). I can, however, see, that they are not only involved in covering up what happened to Madeleine, but they are also covering FOR someone (and/or more then just one person), as is the rest of the Tapas scum, and my thoughts as well as gut instinct runs totally along the same lines with yours.

  127. 127
    Sophie Says:

    Thank you Elen, you are correct that it is a puzzle with a 6 missing pieces:
    The portion of time unaccounted for during the day?
    The time checking routine on the kids by the entire mccanns and the tapas team?
    Who was the mystery person known to Gerry mccann that left paria da luz in the helicopter that night?
    What was the significance of their trip to Huelva ?
    Was it to meet with someone?
    What did they dispose of at the dump site? (they claimed it was garbage but its an odd thing to do if you’re staying at a resort)

    ANY MORE?

  128. 128
    Taurus Says:

    To reply to Sophie. I did not go with an agenda weeks after she went missing. I went to walk the route of the holiday camp and it surprised me as I was looking for the hotel as the media said they stayed in. Not so. I then walked down the hill many times from above the range of self owned flats that crowd and shadow the Warner inner ring of activities. As such the corner flat is the least likely to be a choice of predation.

    I will tell you why?

    1. Unlike 5D where Jane Tanner was and upper 5H of the Payne’s it is trapped in a corner, bins are there and the long and large wall. To go and steal from the two directly as you enter the carpark inlet from the side road off the main road you are listening to sixty or more children to your right. Here to you right is the playschool and gardens in front of block 4 where Mr Wilkins stayed.

    Visualise it. Coming in from Faro you go down the hill past a pink castle type hotel that is seen posed at in the media as backdrop. To the right is the house of the Pyramid and a right angle to two tennis courts, and then a turn to the place the Smith sighting was and a pharmacy, carry on around this perimeter wall of a building site and you come to the Church and the Fortress.

    But go the way of the bus. Here the tour bus will drop those off by turning from the main road into town hedged by the building site and where the lane to all the flats comes out, this before the tennis courts and Tapas Bar. Here the roadside entry is opposite tiered owned apartments of some quality and to the right of the school that runs opposite Block 4.

    Go then to the second inlet and you have Block 5 and an inlet for cars. The most advantageus would bu the direct concrete wall inlet, not the corner flat. That is nonesense. It is nonesense as you can see it is elevated. The pation is elevated and the corridor runs like a rat run. Therefor the front door inset is to the patio door poolside.

    To the left in this corridor cul de sac as ‘dead end’ is the right window. Now as I have checked most holiday makers use the poolsided for children due to the noise of cars passing roadside and headlamps. Common sense.

    But some choose the poolside bedrooms if there is no television going to be on. You see the television is situated by the bedroom used here for adults. So a television on would wake children as it is opposite the lounge. To access the roadside one is off the main door access and turn to the right and into the bathroom. Again a bed placed as it was under the wall of the bathroom would wake a child when water was flused or footsteps. Why then was the bed not placed next to the other one as in the adult bedroom? Then the cots by this to the wardrobe. Why then not put the dresser seen to this bathroom wall to minimise the noise of flushing and the footsteps in?

    But you asked of pedantics.

    2. The patio door is elevated, it flows right to the lounge and kitchen as a visual on entering. Offset is the bedrooms, a real ‘dead end’ for any one going in that should not be there.

    To the right of the lounge is a window that has a sofa pushed up against it as it is open plan as can be seen. It has the noise also of the pulling in outside below of cars to the complex and people chatting as both make a noise to this end flat and are visible.

    The route along the famous small lane is very narrow and cobbled and stepping on it with hard shoes it makes a noise of course. Here if you walk around from 5A the high wall is an impediment. To watch specifically this one dead end flat you would not do so from the opposite side of the street from the Warner hut and pool or below.

    You would watch it from 5C lane as the place the mystery man seen by Mrs Penn’s relative showed of a man subversively coming out of 5B. The angle of the patio above shows 5B to be the only gate he could have exited on that afternoon.

    Hence, this was afternoon. If the man seen loitering is the same man shown on the list of suspicious men ask this?

    Why has this mystery man seen exiting in full daylight in cloths of a certain type not been added to this list of suspicious men?

    It is fact that a man was seen by an independent witness that could later have vaulted with or without help the wall where Gerry is sat by the children’s pool later in the darkness.

    This would bring him out on the lane that divides the flats from the centre, and it would bring him out of course at the top of the lane directly in line with Block 4 or diagonally crossing the pool to 5D.

    Here it would take 1 minute or more to go from the Tapas Bar, cross the grass, cross between the pools and vault over the wall to get to any of the gates that go in and up to the elevations of all of the flats.

    It is the route that I think the man seen by the relative might have gone by moving to the location of Block 4. This from reconstruction takes in all by a fit man of some height to vault and not come back over 2 minutes, not seconds. Seconds is when you count steps and that is not a thing that is factual time.

    Thus, the way this was done is either a child walked out following an adult and out the patio steps and then on hearing Dad and Jeremy chatting and a baby not asleep, and perhaps crying our Jane comes up and cannot get past of course. Two cars block her view to the right where Gerry says he was standing in the exact same manner of the angle said to have been deployed by the man watching a flat, a certain flat. This would have alerted the owner opposite of course.

    But no, the cars are definately parked for sometime, none belonging to the female worker far longer, here Stephen Carpenter clarifies it and his wife and children at 9.15 is and that of the two workers as to longevity.

    What is apparent is that Jane cannot have walked till after 9.15 p.m. due to the testimony of the others and alone and in darkness and this in her sandals does take uphill to the lane as U journey no less than 1 minute 55 seconds if you are not intercepted or interrupted when making that foot out of the Tented area. I say it takes in all 3 minutes as optimum conditions at this time and with the impediments of eating and the lazy days of the evening. So there you are. Optimum conditions means that no impediment makes the journey to a holiday flat by the poolside, so reverse it.

    A child follows after Gerry’s excursion into the poolside entry and bathroom, and leaves the door ajar of course for light. A child does not close doors. Here said child is hearing noises and invesigates the sounds as she knows the voices. She exits and has a fall of some sort as she is watching by the side window by standing on the sofa to the side window. Her visual is that men are talking here under her window in the lounge, cars are moving in and off as is fact at this time and earlier.

    Then this act is then created as a scenario due to the age of the child, not an infant, but a near school age child of no diminutive stature as seen on the ‘walk’ videos. Here she exits or is enticed to the patior and under the parents windown as a rat run again. A blind entry. Here the route down the steps is to turn left and down to the noises below as we know there were noises as it was a dropping off and parking point and turn to the centre at this junction.

    Ending then, the lane is suspect due to the visibility this afforded, and time to exit that the road and route Mr Carpenter and wife, and other tourists took going past the Murat villa as visual from both ends of the road each way.

    The route lane side then would be her escape route by being passed over a wall under the bedroom to the right in line diagonally with the Tapas Bar as concealed at this very point by trees. Certain views of this elevation cannot be seen were you to be continually watching this window elevated for a purpose of clandestine activity. Our man then that was at 5B on the afternoon must come into the equation. For if a man was watching the poolside and not front door access of 5A specifically he would know the range of adults who might and would enter and leave. He would do so by going to the Pool inside the Warner unit and sitting in front of the large pool, this where Gerry is seen to have his image taken with the children as a view to his left should in contrast to his right . This would have been the optimum way for any one to angle the patio elevated and the patio doors and bedroom window. But why not all the flats with children?

    The answer is there were no optimum factors due to the trips of those at random and the sporadic cars that answered service calls to the apartments. Not one definitive can be given. The key lies in the crucial debate of did Gerry and Jeremy talk by the access lane blocking it so that Jane had to be earlier and before Gerry came out this way as she exited 5D. Passing 5C, 5B children as said are awake and ill and make a noise. It is crucial because this stagnation of cars, workers and other tourists all come to the corner a man and child cross in unison at that random time suggested.

    Far more supportive is that Madeleine specifically went to patio door after Gerry left and leaned over the balcony to listen, and then followed down the lane to where she knew the child of Jane Tanner would be. Here she is not intent on her child mind I suggest of going to see mum and dad, but to play. This cognition of what children of school age want to do is at odds. It is my view she would have chosen the lane where she knew children like her were and were alone like she was with her brother and sister.

    But. Our sinister man coming out of gate 5B adjacent to 5C as supposed to be empty is a threat in my view. He could have been there later than 4.30 p.m. as his subversive act was to test a gate that made a noise so as not to be heard coming out or in. This is how I see Madeleine being taken to a place unknown as the lane affording optimum conditionst tested in daylight when everyone was out, or he thought they were. It means he had a lookout and accomplice does it not?

    OPTIMUM CONDITIONS MEAN THAT THE DESIRED OUTCOME IS DUE TO KNOWN FACTORS OF RISK AS A WINDOW OF OPPORTUNITY TO ACT.

  129. 129
    sophie Says:

    “Far more supportive is that Madeleine specifically went to patio door after Gerry left and leaned over the balcony to listen, and then followed……”
    But you have not factored in the supposition that the kids were sedated. Which would therefore discount the idea of maddie leaving the apartment that night.

  130. 130
    sophie Says:

    Hi Taurus,
    “Far more supportive is that Madeleine specifically went to patio door after Gerry left and leaned over the balcony to listen, and then followed……”
    But you have not factored in the supposition that the kids were sedated. Which would therefore discount the idea of maddie leaving the apartment that night.

  131. 131
    Taurus Says:

    Sophie,

    I do not believe Madeleine was sedated, but if she was then she could have, as before woken and became groggy,IF someone had administered in tea some liquid as was suggested prior by Kate as the night before.

    It means she could have ‘come to’ and staggered out, or been taken out by some person that would use the patio door and the easy escape route other than the main concourse of this was not a hotel with reception.

    It was a holiday camp with facilities as a choice.

    If it had been a hotel the child or person would have been seen on cctv and if crying the parents summoned from dinner and reprimanded for the noise to other guests.

    I am not going to say the obvious as she is still missing as last seen at Flat 5A by Dr Payne before tennis. Nor that the family are wrong.

    What is not right is that there is no empirical evidence to say she is alive still, or is not in Praia da Luz or ever left there.

    It is therefore the action of police to find what happened to her in both scenarios as in ANY missing person case as to the two aspects of extra and intra concepts. 5A is the start and end till evidence suggests she did indeed leave this extended location of block 5.

    There is no evidence to polarise a position as not one sighting outside the flat has ever been proved accurate. Robert Murat was put in the frame and many psychics and press jumped on that. But if it was not Robert who lives up there, then the man and child Jane saw cannot be the abductor as a supposed ‘impression’ that became elaborated on.

    No one has seen her since or heard of her.

  132. 132
    sophie Says:

    Taurus,

    Jane Tanner has changed the description of the alleged abductor quite a few times that one has to wonder if there really was a sighting or of a deliberate attempt by Mccanns and Co. to throw the investigation off course.

    According to the Mccanns the patio door was locked, but the main door of the apartment was left unlocked. So if someone was monitoring the movements in and out of the apartment that night then he/they could have simply walked in from the main door and left with madeleine. There is one point which we both agree on and that is: more than one individual was involved.

  133. 133
    sophie Says:

    Why are some of my posts not shown?
    Taurus:
    Jane Tanner has changed her description of the alleged abductor so many times that one has to wonder if there really was a sighting or if it was a deliberate attempt by the Mccanns and Co to throw the investigation off course.
    With regards to Maddie staggering out of the apartment in a groggy state, and walking down the patio stairs without falling over, highly unlikely. Being taken by someone out of the apartment- YES. But through the patio door, i do not think so and why? Because the Mccanns has maintained from the very beginning of this case that the patio door was locked and that the main door of the apartment was unlocked. So it is highly likely that if the apartment was being monitored by a would be abductor, then they would have noticed the timings and pattern of checking by the Mccanns and their friends and all they would have had to do would be to simply enter the apartment from the main door and remove madeleine.
    There is one point where we both agree on and that is more than one individual was involved in the alleged abduction or removal of Madeleine from the apartment.

    Site Admin: Sophie, you only had one post sat in moderation and it is showing now. If you have any more missing let us know.

  134. 134
    Taurus Says:

    Gerry has by his account dismissed Jane Tanner as he says he was on the other side of the road, that is looking right at the road up where she would see Stephen Carpenter and indeed it is possible as he took coffee he did go out the very same time as they exited to go out as a family of four as this timing is after the late arrival of the Payne’s as after 9p.m. and when Matt went to rustle them along. So if Jane says that he did not sit with her and was with them. It is logical to find he continues his chat as they leave and he leaves at 9.15 exit estimated. It would be after the coffee so SC would look at his watch of course and they as a family leave with a three year old of course being carried across a road past her bed time and in leggings of course due to the time of night and location.

    Jane would have to have been inside her flat by the patio poolside door as the nearest and safest for her in those sandals.

    It was the sliding patio door that was unlocked so entry could be had to the lane. Now is it not probable that grown fit men did not use the stairs but simply go in the 5B way and then over the wall by the bedroom to 5A to check?

    Would you not do the same in reverse. If you were Matt would you not go in the very small gate of 5B and then to the patio, and check your child and then jump over the very small wall under the Penn apartment to go to the opening doors of 5A rather than go all the way round and unlock a door and then check under a window to the right. Might not a shadow on a window frighten a child as this would be directly to her and she would hear footsteps and breathing, a cough or some noise of course. Not logical to do so and not safe as it would look like a paedophile or a theif who was at windows where persons were out.

    The main door was locked as it was from the carpark and the sliding door could not be locked from the outside. In the statements it is quite clear and is from Kate that the patio doors on the veranda were left unlocked and slid open as easy access and of course a key turning in a lock and a door opening by the side of the children’s bedroom would be scary.

    In all this the windows being checked are only 5A as the others I assume had put their children in the back poolside rooms. I say that as Jane double locks her door and so this would wake the children by the noise of the lock turning and catching each time.

    If Jane was in her sandals in the lane and not seen my Jeremy and Gerry, nor Stephen Carpenter and his wife, nor the two workers, WHERE WAS SHE? That is the crux of it. And yet only she had seen a man who she admitted in the beginining was ‘never in a million years that of Madeleine’. Yet later autosuggestion and the media places her telling family and Gerry of this phenomena. Of course Gerry is aghast. He knows she could not have been where she said she was. So again where was she?

    It is Gerry who is key to this as he dismissed being on the side blocking her path as in the reconstruction. This airbrushes over the need for her to do a Batman and fly over both of them due to the breadth of the path and the cars there blocking moving out into the road. Gerry says he was on the other side. Jeremy says some side as that of Jane but even he does not see her when with a pram and not urgently walking. Whoever was lurking or insitu was a normal person above suspicion and not a man with a dirty raincoat as sex offenders are not stereotypical in dress and class.

    Who was waiting has to be the man who went into the gate of 5B seen earlier who had a mission, and had an accomplice to do what was to be done. It would not fit for a lone man to stalk and take one large child when two small ones would be easier to put under each arm and run out the gated way.

    Only, ONLY. If the child taken was to be hauled over the wall of 5A to be missed by the Penn family above and then taken out over the patio of 5B and out the gates would this action be valid as to purpose of gate movements.

    Do you agree.

    It is common sense. Whoever was the man who had to try the gates was a logistical person, and did not want to be alert later the residents when using this gate again. He had to know it would not be used again, or to have need of knowing how far to go with a bundle over his shoulder as to one arm to open it and close it.

    Strategy says if he went this way and with a child of this size he would have to use one hand to open any gate. Or any window, or any door. But the issue is that no one saw Jane even the man who was the abductor for if he had he would have come back to silence her of course. But she did not see this as a threat and has not. So the reality is that he was not an abductor as he would see and hear her in that short distance and react. A fact is that did not happen. He did not run, did not turn, but did what normal persons do, carried on back to his flat as she assumed. I

  135. 135
    sophie Says:

    Taurus:

    “In the statements it is quite clear and is from Kate that the patio doors on the veranda were left unlocked and slid open as easy access and of course a key turning in a lock and a door opening by the side of the children’s bedroom would be scary.”

    OK. So if indeed the patio doors were unlocked, why was it necessary for the window shutters to be tampered with or in Kate’s own word “jemmied” by the alleged abductor or intruder?

    The patio doors according to Kate, were locked and this statement was later changed when it was proven that the alleged abductor could not have possibly entered or leave the apartment through the shutters. And if the Mccanns did leave the patio door unlocked because they did not want their movements in and out of the apartment to disturb the kids, Why did Kate enter the apartment from the main door of the apartment that night?

  136. 136
    Taurus Says:

    I have it as fact that the patio door were as stated left unlocked and that Kate went in the patio door that let the curtains blow, which could not have happened in physics as the door was in front and the bedroom door to a vestibule so the curtains and door would not be affected by the opening of a patio door at anytime. The reason for the blinds and windows secured by tie backs and full length is to dispute any scenario I have suggested as it is the most probable and expedient.

    Site Admin: If you look at the photo inside the children’s bedroom that was taken on the night of May 3, the curtains wouldn’t have moved as Kate described for a simpler reason: the left curtain was trapped behind the bed! Click here for the image: http://i.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/00785/madeleine-bedroom2_785841c.jpg. Notice also the wicker chair at the end of the bed. That right hand curtain was unlikely to be able to be drawn fully to the central position without also being trapped behind the bed. Otherwise it would sit awkwardly against the end of the bed. Look at Kate on Oprah as she hyperventilates while describing how the curtains went “whooosh” and she uses both hands to illustrate the movement of curtains in the plural.

    If there was a difference in wind pressure between the back and front of the apartment, that pressure difference would have generated a breeze as soon as she opened the patio doors – not moments later as she keeps on describing. We’ve all experienced that type of thing when we have windows open in a house.

    It didn’t happen. Kate is a bare-faced liar.

  137. 137
    sophie Says:

    Taurus:
    Lets agree to disagree on this point:
    There was no Abductor or Abduction. The Mccanns and Co has is full knowledge of what happened to Madeleine that night. There are far too many inconsistencies in the Mccanns account of what happened and the timings of their movement during that day and night. Had they not “hired” the eloquent Clarence Mitchel they might have been behind bars which is where they should be at least for child neglect.

  138. 138
    sophie Says:

    Jon Corner, clearly states that Kate had told him that they had left the both doors, front and patio, locked while they were having their meal.
    Philomena McCann, Gerry’s sister said on 04 May: “Some people may ask why they left the children alone in the apartment but it was locked and they had a full view of the front door and they were checking every half hour.
    Several other statements made by the Mccanns to Brian Healy, and Trish Cameron that the doors were locked. This version later changed when it was proven that the intruder could not have entered through the jemmied window.

  139. 139
    sophie Says:

    Excerpt from the Mccanns PJ Files
    “Discrepancies in the statements

    – During Gerry’s first questioning (Folio 34) he said that at 21.05 when he went to his apartment to ‘check’ the children, he entered by the main door; during his second questioning (Folio 891) he changed this by saying he had entered through the patio doors.
    – During Gerry’s first questioning he said that Kate, at 22.00, when she went to the apartment, entered by the locked front door . When she entered she noticed the door to the children’s bedroom was opened inwards, the window was open and the shutter was raised. (if this had happened, she would not have noticed this scene after entering. She would have noticed this before entering the apartment, as she would have passed the window of the children’s bedroom).
    – During his second questioning, Gerry said that Kate entered through the patio doors.
    – During Kate’s questioning she said that she entered through the patio doors.

    Site Admin: Sophie – Gerry’s first interview is largely meaningless. He was present during Kate’s earlier interview so he had time to alter whatever he was going to say anyway. I can only guess that he knew Kate said she entered through the patio doors so he said the front door with a key to make it look like he was doing something different. But his comment makes no sense. Why would he enter via the front door when it takes about another 50 yards to walk round to the front door?

    The most absurd detail about the whole case is their insistence that they left the patio doors unlocked. Nobody and I mean nobody goes on a holiday and deliberately leaves the door open with all their valuables inside. You don’t even do it at home. Europe is as prone as anywhere else for petty crime and the McCanns were not naive in this respect. On the contrary, they had been on many European vacations. People are usually interested in getting a safe for their belongings. This simple detail alone is enough to question their “babysitting scheme.”

    The only conclusion that fits these tales is that it is all a lie and didn’t happen in the way they say.

  140. 140
    sophie Says:

    “The only conclusion that fits these tales is that it is all a lie and didn’t happen in the way they say.”

    THANK YOU. With all of their lies, inconsistencies and distortions of events, they still managed to manipulate the public into giving them was it 1 or 2 million pounds, globe trotted the world first class, got a book deal, interviewed by the top tv personalities, met the Pope (amazing), portrayed as the victims all the while the true victim -Madeleine McCann is still missing.
    It was lovely blogging with you. Good Night & God Bless.

  141. 141
    Elen Says:

    Thank you for your additions Sophie, as well as the links on the Kedys case in Lithuania.
    I think human beings in general (the ones of us going about our daily business as normal folks do) have a deep psychological barrier to truly open up their eyes to a -whole other world- of right out darkness spreading around the world right in front of our very eyes. It may simply be too horrendeous and “out of this world” for the human psyche to fully grasp concepts that are so alien to our own form of thinking and existing that most do not want think along those lines, as it seems so incomprehensible. There are however an abundance of cases reported all the way from the 60’s (possibly even earlier then that), cases of ritual abuse, that has either been forcefully denied and ridiculed as products of imagination, the McMartin tunnels being one such case. I will add on a few links here as reminders of mind boggling horrors that has taken and are taking place to this day, and God knows what kind of horrors goes on at this very moment that we may find out about in years to come. There is a dangerous and sinister -movement- going on in the world, where children are abducted and used in unimaginably cruel ways, in rituals that defy all s.c normal human behavior. WHY this is happening is a big question in itself and deserves in-depth investigation only for that aspect. I would like to remind you all of another unfortunate famous little girl that encountered a gruesome destiny no child, no human being deserves. JonBenet Ramsey. I can only at the very depths of mys soul hope that nothing of the sort was Madeleines destiny, still, i am being realistic and not excluding anything when it comes to the behavior and warped thinking world of people who involve themselves with practices of treating children as mere objects of sacrifice for some warped up understanding of gaining power in this world.
    A fair warning; -these links are not for the faint of heart.

    http://jon-benetramsey.blogspot.com/
    http://satanic-abuse.blogspot.com/

  142. 142
    Taurus Says:

    I am most concerned. In the local farmers market I caught children of under ten reading and having the book called ‘Madeleine’. It is a pretty book of an infant on the cover, and one that should be on the coffee table. It is now with a sticker as to 50% off on the front page in large book shops.
    ]
    My concern is the graphic visualisation of a paedophile act that conjours up genital mutilation on page 129, written by Kate. This should never have passed into a book for other than adults. Salivating sex offenders will know of this vision she says of. Not in a million years can I let the material I have to read academically flow into that one as one who studies the subject of CSO’s academically.

    But the issue is why would one think this way, and put it in what is a book of Madeleine, a book of a coming FOUR YEAR OLD that is missing in May 2007.

    Why not tell us the story of her life, and her image of a child that age?

    This image of a tall girl in tennis kit smiling should have been the front page as no one is going to look so near for a flaw in the eye or be allowed to. That would be an assault and a crime perpetrated by the zeal of the paranoid who tries it. It is also stalking to try and do this to a person who might look ‘similar’ as thousands do. The main loss is that the image of Madeleine is not on the billboards in all stations. Instead the book is the item as a unit of currency for a company fund. Thus, the book is not accurately showing the Madeleine on the very front page and saying ‘find me’. Point last seen, Warner complex, Praia da Luz, and the date.

    The book is not a book of shared discussion, or to be seen to have.

    If so I could have read it on the train, but it is akin to a banned book as it cannot be read or the book read in a public place.

    I think the book should be withdrawn and those references of genital mutilation taken out as it is a book for children as is said.

    I am well aware of what is being suggested in the book.

    But if one said that to a psychiatrist he would have you medicated, and at risk due to delusions, or paranoid thoughts that could be harmful, as they are delving into very dark thoughts externalised as thinking macabre thoughts. Page 129.

    Thus, consider also those reading would come under such categories who were abused or had known such acts factually of abuse as improper comments in a general book. How would that register as to reading unwittingly?

    No one knows if she suffered those damages, which if she did would make her life in danger due to septic shock and worse.

    Hence if Madeleine was not taken as a failed kidnap, ransom, or by a person with a grudge, or a person with a psychosis as to the child of that age being perceived as their property, there is no way she is alive after such an injury is sustained.

    I end now as I do not want to be reminded or read the book as it was discarded after this.

    It should give a warning of EXPLICITE SEXUAL CONTENT. I say that as my Journals do state that factually before reading on of case files of CSO to the reader as academic right of access.

    Site Admin: Some people have suggested that the book is Kate’s way of letting others know what happened and therefore the genital mutilation is proof of paedophilia. She does reveal some other information that could be construed as “new”, so this theory cannot be ruled out. But as you say, that kind of description is not something that should be in that type of book. For the most part, the book is all about Kate and Gerry rather than Madeleine. It seems like it is their way of trying to justify their neglect and abuse. “Kate and Gerry McCann” would be a more apt title.

  143. 143
    sophie Says:

    Good Morning Everyone.

    There is another point that needs to be seriously investigated and it concerns financial fraud by the Mccanns. The Mccanns particularly Gerry, strikes me to be extremely astute when it comes to money. So i find it particularly odd that they would pay a firm with a disreputable and shady business history, hundred of thousands of pounds and not ask for a refund. My take on this: The money was probably funnelled back into a secret Mccanns bank account. There is no way the mccanns would let go of this much money and not bat an eyelid. This entire case to the Mccanns was about making money.
    Taurus, unfortunately in the world of advertising and media: Sex sells. So kate’s idea of sexing up the contents of the book was simply to sell more copies. They know that the huge outpouring of public support and sympathy is waning thin, so this is like their last attempt at milking the situation for all that its worth.

    I may not be able to reply as i am at work, so have a fab day everyone.

  144. 144
    Liz Y Says:

    I agree Sophie, they know where she is, they know she’s dead, and they know no-one will ever find her. So, they’re making the most of it, filthy, horrible, vile people that they are. I haven’t read the book yet, I will if one’s been discarded, or it appears on these pages. I will not further their financial status one penny. How they can accuse Amaral of making money out of Madeleine’s demise, and then have the bare-faced cheek to come up with a book which touches on genital mutilation, AND her sex life with Gerry. (My view is based on points that have been raised here).
    How low can they stoop. What happened to her being looked after by a family Kate??? Just when I think I can be no longer be shocked, or horrifically disgusted and disturbed, these two people (and I use that term lightly) crawl back out with another load of self-serving bollocks.
    The more I read this stuff, the more surreal it becomes. Here we are in 2011, a little girl is still missing, the parents, however you look at it, are to blame. We haven’t got a free press, or any other media whatsoever, the interests of a little girl aren’t paramount, the parents and their friends are all the richer, and protected and pitied when they should be behind bars, and nothing happens, NOTHING!! We are supposed to be in a democracy! These people are still receiving hundreds of thousands of £’s 4 years on, and don’t even have to account for this fund’s outgoings, never mind account for themselves.
    The very fact that a lot of people on this site, and others, are veering towards paedophilia, as a possible answer, is because they’ve reasearched all the possibilities. It isn’t surprising. Don’t ever under-estimate the British public, we’re dogged, and we’re not stupid, we’ll never give in. These pieces of filth insult my intelligence!! They may be intelligent enough to be doctor’s, but when it comes to public accountability, they’re as thick as pigshit, or, they think we are!! For example, jemmied shutters, ‘just like being in the garden’ ‘they’ve taken her’ dirty nappies in the car, or meat juices, disparaging the dogs who haven’t been wrong in 200+ cases, walking hand in hand down lovers lane, a gentle jog on the beach, looking like they have a slight bout of indigestion, and so on, and so on, and so on, ad infinitum………….
    I am absolutely furious, and upset and totally helpless, that a little girl can have no justice. I know she is dead, but, I have nightmares as to how.
    Until I came on here I’d never thought, or read, about the horrendous things one human being could do to helpless children, my lesson has been a hard one. These people should either be imprisoned forever, or, put down for the animals they are. No, in hindsight, animals wouldn’t do this.

  145. 145
    sophie Says:

    Hi Liz,

    You forgot this little classic from Kate: “” Whoever Madeleine’s with she’ll be giving them her tuppence worth …” These are not really the words of a mother distraught over the disappearance of her child is it? Not really the words of a mother concerned and fearful that her child may have been taken by a paedophile ring? Like you, i have not read the book nor do i intend to.
    I have a sneaky feeling that very soon, the truth will begin to trickle out and it may be connected to the News of The World current scandal. Just a hunch.

    Site Admin: Antonella Lazzeri & Co at the Sun and her cohorts at the News of the World have been fawning over the McCanns for years. If Gerry McCann had “dirt” on News Corporation it would certainly go a long way to showing the crazy amount of favoritism shown towards them by both papers. You’re right – it could quite easily be linked to this scandal.

  146. 146
    Liz Y Says:

    Hi Sophie, There must be loads more I’ve forgotten, my memory is appalling. I fervently hope that you’re right about the NoTW, God rest it’s soul!! Anyways, I think there are rumblings of discontent about the way the McCanns are feted. The higher-ups are just as liable to jealous wives, girlfriends, boyfriends, conceit, envy, all manner of sexual deviances. If the shit hit the fan, they’d drop the McCanns like a stone. Gerry is one of those people who can get anyones back’s up, rich or poor and Kate is walking around with a face like a smacked arse.
    I think that, if it wasn’t for dear old Clarrie, (another one with an uncanny ability to get up everyone’s nose). they’d be inside now.
    On a lighter note, The Beckhams wanted to call their new daughter TAPAS SEVEN, but they couldn’t afford the royalties!!

  147. 147
    Elen Says:

    I will try for a moment to go back to “basics” after having read over and over again all the interesting and careful observations of various phases of happenings around the date of Madeleines disappearance. The only “testimony” i can say i find totally reliable in this whole case is the dogs. They had never failed in a case previously, that much we know. Therefore, someone dead had occupied the McCann apartment for some time for cadaver odor to have developed. Now, (correct me if i remember dates wrong) Mrs Fenn heard a child crying and calling for Daddy for well over an hr on the night of the 1st. The crying stopped abruptly, and as far as we can gather, after that moment there are no 100% reliable sightings of Madeleine. I think she died that night. How it happened i will leave out of speculation for now in order to try and keep my theory as simple as possible. The night she died she was kept in the apartment, hidden in the wardrobe out of sight from the twins (and obviously Kate and Gerry themselves) Well into the day of the 2nd of May her body was still there, whilst they were planning on how to dispose of her. This gave plenty of time for cadaver odor to develop. ( Does anybody know if any of the other couples in the tapas group was renting a car around that time by the way? As if so, Kate and Gerry or either one of them could have driven away with her body to a temporary site to dispose of Madeleines body while they came up with a plan of what the next step would be) This gave them well more then 24 hrs before raising the alarm of her -disappearance and have all of the investigation concentrated only to the night of the 3rd, when in reality Madeleine had died already appx 48 before. (Wasn’t it also so that the McCanns had some bigger bag missing they had previously been seen with? I do appreciate anyone interested to fill in details in my theory if it sounds plausible to anybody else but myself, i’m not trying to be -right- here, simply writing down a possible scenario of how things could have happened, in the simplest form possible) Renting a car so much later and taking off to Huelva in Spain (that seemed to make no sense whatsoever) they picked up Madeleines body from its temporary “resting place” and brought it along to be disposed of on the side of Spain somewhere, where no-one would have a thought of looking for her body, as the entire investigation was still focusing around the -faked abduction- scenario.
    Now, i am forming this very basic theory and assumption upon the fact of the -testimonies- of the dogs, and ONLY that. All i know for certain is that the dogs were not corrupt nor bribed, not liars, not inventing stories nor changing testimonies, and had no idea what it was they were looking for. They came up with two facts staring us in our faces to this day, -They smelled cadaver and blood in the McCanns apartment and in the car, and nothing can change that fact. I look forward to anyone helping me along with this theory, as well as pointing out any fact to me that points in any contrary direction. And if so, in such case, what did the dogs smell?

  148. 148
    Taurus Says:

    I have tried to get the image of the apartments on her and found one where they are added as this was on another site.
    Having been there to search same as Colin, it cannot be explained unless you have been there for a set purpose after the event.

    I believe the mostly likely place for a coming four year old would be down a well, that is in the vicinity of Sagress or PDL. I am going to add that the term paedophile as to a person who uses for his own sexual fantasy this ‘sexual being’ is wrong as to a sex offender classification, try child molester, Internet offender and rapist as to adult and child sex offenders. No former policeman would use this term as it is not correct to categorize all sex offenders in the same bucket, nor would Kate, but she does. Not all sex offenders chose to do what she states she imagines in page 129, as to certain death from femoral artery bleeding and so Kate is seeing blood, copious viscous amounts of it in the description of this image of her daughter. But I let that rest academically as she is very clearly seeing a woman in labour who has had forceps or a very hard birth that has meant cutting of this region as a seen image when in midwifery. She has transposed it in the book to resemble what she imagines in horror that is the result of childbirth with complications as to childbirth. She is seeing a child being born, and with assistance by cuttting and forcepts or both.
    Is she in her mind giving birth to Madeleine or watching someone give birth and feels that excruciatiing pain and describes it?

    For now I have the image that the webmaster can upload to show the apartments and the gates for someone who may have made house calls as a usual sporadic event, that a ‘paedophile’ could not plan for in any of the apartments where children could be taken when breaking into ANY of the apartments, but is suggested to be just one that was open, and broken into. Where was the man seen coming out of gate 5B in the afternoon, and was he Tapas 10?

    http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t2213-block-5-apartment-numbers

  149. 149
    Elen Says:

    I understand the term -freedom of expression- and appreciate the fact that -we-, the people that share cyberspace here are probably mostly from such countries where freedom of expression is as everyday and normal as sliced bread. Yet, sometimes within the terminology of freedom of expression i find myself wondering if the path headed upon, trying to find the truth, the truth for ONE PURPOSE only; – bringing justice to Madeleine;- isn’t tread upon in a manner where every little piece of mind “material” is put under a microscope for the pure interest of dwelling upon the -grossness- of it? I am aware of how deep and warped that in itself might sound (being read) , as really speaking, it sounds only that way because i am being overly polite, not wanting to say the evident – what does it matter…in what WAY does it matter what Kate writes about anything..on any page…of whatever? Why should it be the subject of analysis as analyzing such insignificant -words- of a human being that we already KNOW to be mentally warped, will not EVER bring back Madeleine, nor will it bring any justice to her, no matter how much anyone of us dwells upon what this twisted mind has written about her child! (Believe me, it makes ME sick to call Madeleine Kates child )
    As a mother of four beautiful (adult) children, thinking of the unbearable heartache it would be to have lost anyone of them in any manner or way, i find myself as a MOTHER myself, trying to “find” Madeleine to this day…and i fail personally to see the importance of shredding any page or words in Kates book to pieces within this -search- for Madeleine. As said, -within- freedom of expression such analysis may play a huge role, however, -in the real SEARCH for Madeleine, it plays no role whatsoever. In my opinion it is sidetracking the issue just as much as the McCanns has been sidetracking the issue since the day Madeleine disappeared from the rest of the world. It does not MATTER what Kate -imagines- unless what she imagines can be taken as something that truly did happen to Madeleine. As to date, NONE of us knows what happened to her, and therefore it is pointless to head along with Kates -visualizations- and dive into her mind set, as such thoughts will evidently not bring anyone closer to finding Madeleine neither dead nor alive. Please, i ask..for MADELEINE…let us all just remember FACTS about the whole case! Lets remember the dogs testimony, the ONLY piece of firm evidence that will bring us somewhat closer to actually FINDING Madeleine…or most probably, her body. Lets try and follow that TRAIL that these well trained dogs showed us, and if someone still does not think that 200 cases solved before Madeleines disappearance with the help of these dogs is sufficient proof that they gave the ONLY reliable piece of evidence as to that Madeleine died, ONE WAY OR ANOTHER, -then, anyone that DOUBTS that piece of evidence, please give me a plausible explanation to WHAT it was that the dogs smelled in apt 5A at the Ocean Club as well as in McCanns rental car??? Please, lets just do our BEST to find Madeleine..really truly FIND her!! (without letting the McCanns sidetrack us!!)

  150. 150
    Taurus Says:

    Medical scientists and I am one and also a psychologist do not mince words, and so you ask of the dogs.

    Having seen said dogs of Martin Grime in action trained by Mark Harrison MBE who has led them on many cases in the past I know how they work. I am as always concerned with what is there and a triagulation. I too have grown up children and every mother thinks their children is beautiful and wonderful, and grateful.
    FACTS. These are facts that can be understood by certain people and misunderstood by other persons. FACTS are those replications of those empirical facts that show that something is or is not proved of possible.

    As I have been on this since June, 2007 as invited then I have a different tone of what has gone on. There is no official or public spokesperson for the near four year old Madeleine. She instead of the other girl children was found to be missing and a reward from a newspaper came within days.

    You ask of the dogs, you are talking specifically of Eddie and Keela as trained then Yorkshire Police cadaver dogs. Dogs that both sought out a patch on the farm of Kate Prout to denote her demise and death in a certain region. Her body has never been found on this grouse moor she owned with her husband she feared. Others this set of dogs have been on and I have the ultimate faith in this team and have asked them to deploy to locations in my work.

    The words I use are not from page 129 that is sat in a book shop in the town where children think she is a ‘Barbie doll’ as the image shows a playdoll in red, and cogntively this is what children think when the see the ‘Maddie Doll’ in the images of her as an infant. No one sidetracks the police, or ‘US’. What happened to this child of coming school age instead of the other 8 children as

    Payne family, three adults, two girl children,
    Tanner and O’Brien famly, two adults, two girl children,
    Oldfield Family, two adults, one girl infant,

    McCann, two adults, two girl children, one boy child,

    Plus that of the Carpenter family as coffee and tennis friends,
    Two adults, two girl children.

    Plus Jeremy Wilkins, two adults, one infant boy.

    Add to the list on this date as to why one out this set had to be missing that did not have to be a brake in because the patio doors were open. That is why I supplied the photo of the gates to show the top view of the flats in 5 and not 4. Crucially why was 5C not let to Jane Tanner or to the McCanns as would make more sense to ‘sandwich’ the party in this way? My best was going out there to see for myself weeks after and reconstructing it before those theories were put by others. It is up to Scotland Yard to do as you suggest and they have the files that will never be given outside a police force to any civilian whoever they are, except the Home Office and the Prime Minister of course.

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